Erdogan calls Dutch as well as Germans 'Nazis'

191 posts in this topic

I've just spent the past ten minutes watching a Periscope stream showing Turkish nationalists throwing rocks at police as they riot outside the Turkish consulate in Rotterdam. Quite the scene to see a European city playing host to a few thousand people chanting "God is great" while scrapping with the resident cops.

I think Wilders will have some traction yet.

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Yes Erdogan is giving free ammunition to all the nationalist parties right now. He's playing a carefully planned game of chess. He will win his référendum using the last days events to show the need for a strong turkey against the islamiphob nazis in the West. He will win. 

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23 minutes ago, vmelchers said:

Yes Erdogan is giving free ammunition to all the nationalist parties right now. He's playing a carefully planned game of chess. He will win his référendum using the last days events to show the need for a strong turkey against the islamiphob nazis in the West. He will win. 

 

And Western European leaders like Mark Rutte will have to deal with a Turkey ruled by an Erdoğan over whom they have no leverage, but geostrategic dependence especially in relation to Russia.  European leaders flail around haplessly, aping the far-right when it's time to make a principled stand, but then defending the status quo when it is time for reform. 

 

Fun times.

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19 minutes ago, Eupathic Impulse said:

 

And Western European leaders like Mark Rutte will have to deal with a Turkey ruled by an Erdoğan over whom they have no leverage, but geostrategic dependence especially in relation to Russia. 

That is if they see Russia is a threat.

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48 minutes ago, vmelchers said:

 He will win his référendum using the last days events to show the need for a strong turkey against the islamiphob nazis in the West. He will win. 

And if he doesn't, he will fiddle with the votes.

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That has become impossible here in the last two elections. There is a civil initiative that oversees the entire process securing proper count of votes over 90 something per cent. Also, people from all parties go to the counts and vote transfers with vehicles. In the case of power cuts, citizens jump on the box and sit on it - youngsters gets training from their elderly parents who are experienced in handbag karate it seems :) He wins at the box, we cannot deny this reality.  

 

 

 

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Isnt It a stroke of luck that the US millitary have been moving a load of hardware into Poland...??

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3500 American troops have been stationed in Poland too and i think the story is not getting nearly as much attention as it deserves. 

 

But how is that connected to this topic ? 

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Is anything on TT really "On topic?"

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As someone who lived in Istanbul for four years, calling it a rising power is a bit of a stretch, IMO. It's true that it progressed rapidly in the first decade of the 21st century, but things have really fallen off in the second decade. The Turkish lira was 1.91 to the USD when I moved there in 2011 and is now at 3.72 to the USD. That is extremely painful for a country with a massive current account deficit. Furthermore, due to the economic mismanagement of the country and recent political purge, Turkey is experiencing a massive brain drain. 

 

As we have already entered the Fourth Industrial Revolution, the one big thing Turkey did have going for it, a strong demographic dividend, is now a massive liability. Official unemployment is high, and the real numbers are sky high, especially when taking into consideration the millions of Syrians living in the country. With automation and AI eliminating entire swathes of jobs and leading to the reshoring of manufacturing in a variety of sectors, having a growing, unskilled population is not the economic boon it was once considered. 

 

Many of my highly-skilled Turkish friends have left for the EU, Canada and United States, one of whom moved roughly the same time I did to Berlin. So this bit about a rising power, I'm not really sure I see the evidence for that. The economy is shaky, the currency weak, the current account deficit massive, the state of the education system dismal...not a great foundation. 

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16 hours ago, SA618 said:

I am no fan of Erdgogan, but preventing politicians or surrogates of another NATO member to enter the country seems like a bad idea.   In my opinion, anti-Turkish sentiment in Germany is pretty open.   It is not a big stretch for Turks within Germany to feel insulted.  

 

...

 

Turkey is a rising power, it is a NATO member, and it plays a key role as a gatekeeper of refugees coming out of the middle east.    Turkey has been bold enough to shoot down a Russian plane which invaded its airspace less than one year ago.    Ergodan is holding a very strong hand and Germans and Dutch would be well advised to acknowledge Turkey's power and its crucial role whether they like Erdogan's style or not.  

....

 

 

Cute. Obviously you do know that Turkey has repeatedly refused entry to German MPs who wanted to visit the Bundeswehr soldiers who are on duty in Turkey? These were low key routine visits, not huge and highly controversial political rallies.

 

As to Turkey holding a strong hand, you are kidding yourself. Tourist bookings are down by almost 60% and foreign investment is falling off a cliff. It doesn't look as if Turkey is going anywhere as a big new power right now.

 

Turks are within their rights to vote for Turkey to go to hell in a handcart, yet they may kindly keep their political scum at home. These people are as welcome as a NPD rally. While we have to tolerate the NPD, we have no obligation of that kind at all towards Erdoğan  and his cabal.

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6 hours ago, Oblomov said:

 

 

Cute. Obviously you do know that Turkey has repeatedly refused entry to German MPs who wanted to visit the Bundeswehr soldiers who are on duty in Turkey? These were low key routine visits, not huge and highly controversial political rallies.

 

As to Turkey holding a strong hand, you are kidding yourself. Tourist bookings are down by almost 60% and foreign investment is falling off a cliff. It doesn't look as if Turkey is going anywhere as a big new power right now.

 

Turks are within their rights to vote for Turkey to go to hell in a handcart, yet they may kindly keep their political scum at home. These people are as welcome as a NPD rally. While we have to tolerate the NPD, we have no obligation of that kind at all towards Erdoğan  and his cabal.

 

I was unaware.  If you have a link to a news article about refusal of entry for a German MP, it would be much appreciated.   I would like to see the context and grounds for refusal.  

 

In the US around 10 years ago, then President of Mexico, Vicente Fox and first lady of Poland, Jolanta Kwasniewska both visited Chicago for campaigning purposes.     A few years ago, Erdogan entered Germany to hold political rallies and now the only thing which has changed is that Germans don't like his message.   As long as both are allies via NATO, his surrogates should be let in.   

 

If you use a 10-20 year outlook instead of a 2 year outlook, Turkey is rising and will continue to rise.   Tourism will bounce back in a few years.  In the short term, Turkey is still acting as a gatekeeper for refugees pouring out of the middle east, and that is good for some leverage. 

 

This video from Stratfor's George Friedman is interesting.   He argues that Turkey has the strongest military in Europe outside of the UK.  

 

 

 

 

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28 minutes ago, SA618 said:

I was unaware.  If you have a link to a news article about refusal of entry for a German MP, it would be much appreciated.   I would like to see the context and grounds for refusal.  

 

I'm surprised you're so unaware. It keeps cropping up in the German news.

 

Originally they refused German politicians access to German soldiers based in Turkey because of the Armenia resolution. A Spiegel online article from last year:

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/tuerkei-nennt-politiker-besuche-auf-luftwaffenbasis-unangemessen-a-1099349.html

 

Turkey relented only after the German government announced the resolution wasn't legally binding.

 

Now they are refusing another German politician a visit again. Here's a recent Spiegel online article: 

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/tuerkei-verweigert-linken-bundestagsabgeordneten-van-aken-besuch-bei-deutschen-soldaten-a-1137970.html

 

 

Quote

 

Tatsächlich birgt der Fall jede Menge Brisanz: Im vergangenen Jahr war deutschen Abgeordneten über mehrere Monate hinweg der Besuch der Soldaten am Luftwaffenstützpunkt in Incirlik verweigert worden, bis im Oktober schließlich sieben von ihnen anreisen durften. Grund für die Verstimmung in der Türkei war damals, dass der Bundestag die an den Armeniern begangenen Verbrechen als als Völkermord anerkannt hatte.

Die Lage entspannte sich damals erst, als die Bundesregierung erklärte, die Resolution sei rechtlich nicht bindend - was in der Türkei als Distanzierung vom Parlamentsbeschluss aufgefasst wurde.

Kurz danach hatte auch Linken-Außenpolitiker van Aken einen Besuch bei den deutschen Soldaten beantragt, jedoch vergeblich auf eine Reiseerlaubnis gewartet. Bislang habe Ankara Besuchswünsche bei der Bundeswehr in der Türkei "schlicht ignoriert, jetzt sagen sie erstmals klipp und klar nein", kritisierte der Linken-Politiker. Die Bundesregierung müsse jetzt schnell reagieren: Abgeordnetenbesuche bei Bundeswehrsoldaten im Einsatz gehörten zur Grundbedingung einer Parlamentsarmee.

 

 

Further articles on the subject.

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@bramble, And don't forget the threats that Erdogan made to the German politicians and MPs of Turkish origin who supported the Armenian genocide resolution.

Accusing them of having a "tainted blood" is a very Nazist thing to say. And he calls other people Nazi?

Erdogan is a true nazi himself.

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Nobody gives a flying rat's tail about the Armenians except the Armenians.

 

It is an issue which is trotted out for political leverage only.

 

Maybe this post would be appropriate for the Captain Obvious thread unless the Erdoganesque Mod has already locked it.  ?

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If the German Government tried to pass a resolution regarding the colonial crimes against humanity perpetrated by the Belgians, French, Spanish, British or Dutch, there would be diplomatic crises of epic proportions.

 

Turkey is an important ally and should be treated as such.

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2 hours ago, SA618 said:

Nobody gives a flying rat's tail about the Armenians except the Armenians.

 

That's a strange thing to say. Of course we care about genocide, no matter who executed it and who was affected.

 

 

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