Erdogan calls Dutch as well as Germans 'Nazis'

191 posts in this topic

From bramble's BBC links:

 

Addressing a rally of supporters, Erdogan retaliated against the decision to prevent the Turkish foreign minister from visiting Rotterdam.

"Listen Netherlands, you'll jump once, you'll jump twice, but my people will thwart your game," he said. "You can cancel our foreign minister's flight as much as you want, but let's see how your flights will come to Turkey now."

"They don't know diplomacy or politics. They are Nazi remnants. They are fascists," he said.

 

Unbelievable. He already thinks he is a king.

Yeah, the Netherlands will suffer sooooooo much not being able to go to a shit-hole called Turkey.

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2 hours ago, Eupathic Impulse said:

Institutional structure rather than culture appears to determine tax compliance:

I very much doubt that. Here in Cyprus at least tax avoidance is clearly more widespread than in Germany. E. g. when I wanted to buy a piece of land the owner wanted part of the purchase price in cash and was very surprised when I found a problem with that, my landlord insisted on getting my rent in cash, mentioning that the financial authorities didn´t know after all that he was renting out his daughter´s flat, out of 3 times my car was in a workshop only once I got a receipt etc. etc.

You may object that this is only anecdotal evidence, but I´m convinced that it´s a good reflection of reality.

 

 

 

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57 minutes ago, klubbnika said:

Not if you don't not accept those institutional structures.

 

That was, um, the point.

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2 minutes ago, Eupathic Impulse said:

 

That was, um, the point.

And my point was that they will never accept these institutional structures because they are not Turkish.

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I just wonder how Turkey (Erdogan) is going to react when the economy collapses. So far there has been a massive drop in the number of German tourists booking to go to Turkey. This will also be reflected in other countries such has Holland. The EU countries will be looking at trade deals and a number of companies will be wary of letting their staff visit Turkey on business trips. Having a strategic partnership with Russia and maybe Putin telling the Russians to holiday there won't be enough to fill the hole. Who will Erdogan blame then? Oh yes it will be Europeans for trying to undermine his country of course.

 

Now, with the removal of many Academics and the restructuring of education in the country, just how is Turkey going to produce the skilled educated workforce that will compete in the real world.

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Wow, so subtle. I mean they only want to stab oranges with butter knives. Nothing else. They are very peaceful!!!! #GTFO

 

Turks-in-holland-threatening-the-Dutch-with-oranges-because-they-dont-allow-hate-speech-from-Turkish-MPs-in-their-country-Laughable.jpg

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I'm pretty sure the Holländer will survive without Döner. Replace the labour force with immigrants from a more tolerant country. Sri Lanka, Mexico, Argentina, South Korea, Japan...such awesome endless multicultural options. :lol:

They-love-Erdoan-anyway-so-its-a-win-win.jpg

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32 minutes ago, Erdmann said:

Wow, so subtle. I mean they only want to stab oranges with butter knives. Nothing else. They are very peaceful!!!! #GTFO

 

Turks-in-holland-threatening-the-Dutch-with-oranges-because-they-dont-allow-hate-speech-from-Turkish-MPs-in-their-country-Laughable.jpg

Where was that? In Turkey or the Netherlands?

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6 minutes ago, snowingagain said:

Oranges??  Netherlands??

Yes. I have no idea.

Please don't force me to google. :)

 

EDIT: OK, googled now and found out why.

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15 hours ago, topcat 1 said:

Hmm i am not sure if i agree with ,zeino here. Most of my Turkish friends tell me it is a vote between yes and terrorism...If you vote no you are a defacto terrorist. 

 

Anyways that's me for tonight as i write one word and then loose connection to TT although i have several other sites open and working without these issues.

 

Sleep well everyone

 

Yes, this is here. Strongly but not in a fixed way. Worth analysing. Like, we are hearing at the same time that the Kurdish negotiation process will go on after the referandum regardless of the outcome. Ideologically, everyone can attribute different meanings to it. But from a campaign tactics perspective, can we deny how experienced a move this is in comparison to just shouting dictatorship?This is not just fear politics. It has never been. 

 

For the fear part, if one wants to oppose this, surely one should reveal what this strategy serves to and this is done. But if one builds their entire campaign strategy on this, there is the danger of wheel-spinning in a historical pit losing sight of where any discussion is going - to the constitution. That's why, campaigns are built on discussing this, in addition to what to call this - so many suggestions there. 

 

That's why, to get out of vicious cycles not even designed by one's self, the entire politics has chosen to focus on the constitution reality. That's why, people are trying to say, forget about everyone. People are mortal. Your heroes are mortal, your enemies are mortal, how exactly do you want to rule or be ruled? How exactly do you want yor children to live no matter who is in power - whom you support or whom you are against. Think about your own bond with your state. Stay on track. 

 

"Dictatorship" doesn't cut it, especially if people do not have the historical experience of enjoying all aspects of democracy - some have enjoyed some of these during AKP, some during CHP etc etc. And discussions like "yeah but I can vote, can't I?", "yeah, but this is called plebiscite" don't reach anywhere right now. Plebiscite sounds like something like collibacillus, not advisable to swim in it. We know that one. That's where it ends. 

 

The issue is to make the constitution alive and relevant in people's minds really. Nobody wanted the old one, it has bad emotional associations of a military coup even though it has been changed 18 times with 105 or something alterations to it. OK. This is a point that everyone agreed on. Let's carry on with that now. The parliament has done its job. It is now the citizens' duty to decide if they like it. To decide it, people must understand how exactly a constitution works. Its function is not to protect good people from bad people only. Its function is to protect people from good people who can make mistakes with all good intentions as well. It protects those good people, too. Focusing on our designed baddies makes us forget this very basic reality, that's where tagging each other works. 

 

From a life perspective, how do the high vegetable or gas prices that make it to the news every single evening and dominate every single conversation relate to the process of deciding on farming policies or budget making? How is the relation between a farmer whose land is taken for road building and what his MP or lawyer can do for him regulated in this constitution? Do people who feel ignored by everyone before A,B,C party want their old/new and rightful gains to remain with them on a systems base? How can they secure these? These are all discussions that are relevant to everyone. And if the issue is terror, does this system protect us against this?

 

These are the general arguments. One academic  focuses on how sustainable would any dictatorship be in Turkey's solid, real circumstances - energy, budget, currency, how investments and capital are allocated, ideology etc etc. His answer, zero - unless we are turned into one internationally. Someone else predicts this would take us back around 30 years. Constitutionalists are predicting that if the new constitution doesn't work, voices will rise again like they always do because if a new system doesn't work, it may collapse in multiple ways just like it can achieve multiple things if it works. Can any ideology be discussed without any reference to economy or facts really?  

 

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33 minutes ago, jeba said:

Where was that? In Turkey or the Netherlands?

 

I think Turkey. So excuse the #. Either way, the Turks in Netherlands will follow suit.

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13 minutes ago, klubbnika said:

EDIT: OK, googled now and found out why.

 

Why? Tell us. Orange being Netherlands football team colour? :D

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17 minutes ago, zeino said:

 

"Dictatorship" doesn't cut it, especially if people do not have the historical experience of enjoying all aspects of democracy - some have enjoyed some of these during AKP, some during CHP etc etc.

 

It seems to me that this is the key issue.

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2 hours ago, French bean said:

I just wonder how Turkey (Erdogan) is going to react when the economy collapses. So far there has been a massive drop in the number of German tourists booking to go to Turkey. This will also be reflected in other countries such has Holland. The EU countries will be looking at trade deals and a number of companies will be wary of letting their staff visit Turkey on business trips. Having a strategic partnership with Russia and maybe Putin telling the Russians to holiday there won't be enough to fill the hole. Who will Erdogan blame then? Oh yes it will be Europeans for trying to undermine his country of course.

 

Now, with the removal of many Academics and the restructuring of education in the country, just how is Turkey going to produce the skilled educated workforce that will compete in the real world.

 

This is very much like the level Turkish left is discussing this. Autocracy, constitutional dictatorship, "extraordinary" situations from Weimar to 9/11. 

 

And this, whatever structure this is, will be weak.

 

Economy: Independent financial resources? Savings? Budget deficits? Depending on outside capital flow? High-tech? Education? Unemplyment? Women in the work force? 

 

Energy dependence: Giant. ıs there a power to invade any other resources? No. 

 

Turkey's own capitalists? Does losing democracy work for them? No. Conservative capital? Construction sector. can there be a dictatorship standing on apartment buildings built on plains? 

 

Foreign support for dictatorship: EU-NATO-G7, game-builders, US, G7. 

 

Army? High-tech army? 

 

If this country becomes a dictatorship, it goes down quickly. Prolly the biggest effect would be us having no electricity and you guys missing me :) Turkish people may sound very nationalist at the moment, but we also have 40 years of experience with some joys of free economy, like FB, ipad, angry birds, all food is Monsanto. 

 

Erdoğan knows well that the only way forward for everyone is to try to grow properly despite tensions actually.

 

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