Erdogan calls Dutch as well as Germans 'Nazis'

[zeino 692]

In Turkey, the general inclination is to ask why someone is saying something (like function as opposed to content in language use) and then work from that aspect (dismantling, suggesting something else, whatever). Otherwise it's easy to get "blue screen", "error 404" with everyone. This kind of talk is not unique to Erdoğan basically and why people vote for him is not also purely because of this talk. 

 

Erdoğan and Trump are considered very similar leaders here, speaking in a certain manner to satisfy a certain base but an evaluation of economic decisions etc also presents a different - and not so oppositonary direction. I sadly believe Trump voters will experience that with Trump as well. There are different cultural codes, symbols, discourses of course, but these are the same thing as "yuuuuge" basically. Emotional reactions, logic patterns are very similar.  Not surprisingly, Trump is liked by Erdoğan supporters who disliked Obama - despite all the Muslim talk, which says something. 

 

One of the biggest mistakes of Turkish social democrats - now "the Dutch among us"- has been to perceive this group of voters as "stupid" - how do they not see it?- "ignorant, uneducated" etc. Or "selling out the country to pasta and coal". It is something else.  I sometimes wonder if anyone knows what that is. 

 

There is also a joke here for all groups like this that they want to be more left actually, but they haven't realized it, yet   

 

My individual opinion, some good role models in SPD or coalitions can change many things. 

[klubbnika 1,308]

1 hour ago, esqualidus said:

 

i think you are seen the things wrong, they like the life-style in Muslim lands, their are just too numerous and spread, and are moving to other countries,

"terraforming them ". e.g. trying to impose their values and laws like sharia law. and try to turn Europe into a Muslim Europe. 

Than it will be heaven on earth for them...without the infidels (us). lol 

 

But it is the infidels who create the living standard that Turks are moving here for.

No infidels, no living standard - there is a reason why Turkey's level of development is what it is.

[wien4ever 446]

I read an interesting comment somewhere, tongue-in-cheek, that if so many people are coming to Western countries because they dislike their governments so much and enjoy ours instead, maybe we should restart colonialism and give them the government that they want in their countries. 

 

 

[zeino 692]

On 14.03.2017 10:13:42, French bean said:

Turkey plays a very vital role as it is seen as where "East meets West", where Europe ends and Persia starts. It is strategic in many ways but with many modern ways of travelling, ICBM's and the use of Aircraft Carriers as recently demonstrated by Russia, it is not as important as it once was.

 

 

French bean, not to disagree with you or to add to Turkey's importance or anything but I think part of Turkey's importance comes from the nuclear defence map. In terms of missiles in Iran, the US/NATO plan is to spot them as early as possible and shoot them somewhere around the Mediterranean. The Iranian Shejil 2 covers Eastern Europe. Iran also developed Shahab 3 during the Iran-Iraq war and it is guessed that version 6 is coming with a 6000km - though debatable?.  Still, for everything they have, early timing is important because it is best to shoot these while they are going up. When these go down a certain altitude, they create an impulse shock effect which then kills all sorts of communication and everything gets a bit more dangerous anyway. (And clouds travel etc). These strategies need different technologies and the multi-layered Lisbon treaty plan will be complete in 2020.  Turkey is the country where you can spot them the earliest with a radar that is already built, the nearest spot is Israel but there is an important 4 minute difference. As far as we have been told, it is capable of spotting a tennis ball from 4700 km away, which gives a good defense alarm range.

 

Turkey is quite troubled by this, too. We accepted to have the radar but have so far rejected defense stuff from the US that can shoot missiles that are sent our way because that means existing in the nuclear map as a direct active target as well. So, we agreed to notify NATO when something is sent but not defend ourselves against stuff that comes our way - not to increase animosity from Iran and Russia.

 

If Turkey loses NATO solidarity, these are the allies left in the region, and this is worrisome for Turkey, too, I guess. However, there are many people here who don't even wish to exist in this military map, as a target for all these missiles etc. They want Turkey to be a neutral country actually, not getting involved in any of this. The radar itself is controversial because the US started building it without waiting for the parliament's decision here - if I remember correctly- and the whole entry permissions are given by the US, not Turkey. 

 

 

[zeino 692]

It is discussed in the US that there should be a Plan B to this, but you know the situation of the Middle East. For the time being, these two allies are working together it seems - last week or so three generals (one Russian, one Turkish and one US) came together to discuss the coordination of operations in the Middle East and how not to clash etc. 

 

[desdemona 1,405]

I've been in Turkey for business a few times. What I know of normal Turkish people are those living and working in urban Istanbul or Izmir, swigging raki after work, concerned about balancing parenting and work, real estate as pet topic in conversations. In other words, normal people just like you and me here, barely religious, if at all. They don't actually support Erdogan like the flag swinging militants here in Europe, they just want to get on with their lives peacefully. The noise only came from the minority who knows nothing about real life in Turkey. I'd say it's good for Germany and Netherlands to put up a strong stand, the country's internal affairs really shouldn't be exported to Europe, and Europe shouldn't bother much about Erdogan's whining. The majority of people in Turkey, Europe or elsewhere don't want anything to do with political campaigning, whining and tantrums throwing.

[French bean 3,463]

8 hours ago, desdemona said:

I've been in Turkey for business a few times. What I know of normal Turkish people are those living and working in urban Istanbul or Izmir, swigging raki after work, concerned about balancing parenting and work, real estate as pet topic in conversations. In other words, normal people just like you and me here, barely religious, if at all. They don't actually support Erdogan like the flag swinging militants here in Europe, they just want to get on with their lives peacefully. The noise only came from the minority who knows nothing about real life in Turkey. I'd say it's good for Germany and Netherlands to put up a strong stand, the country's internal affairs really shouldn't be exported to Europe, and Europe shouldn't bother much about Erdogan's whining. The majority of people in Turkey, Europe or elsewhere don't want anything to do with political campaigning, whining and tantrums throwing.

The same could be said of 1930's Germany, many weren't interested with politics, just normal life. However, after democracy was dismantled and a culture of spying on your neighbour introduced people became fearful and dared not voice opposition. The coup is being used to remove anyone that stands in the way whether legitimately involved or not. Democracy is being dismantled with the arrests of opposition MP's and the up and coming referendum. The fear is beginning. There are already reports of Turkish children being asked to report whatever their parents say.

[Eshek 12]

Quote

However, after democracy was dismantled and a culture of spying on your neighbour introduced people became fearful and dared not voice opposition

Turkish villages have a headperson who is appointed by the rural community called a 'mukhtar', these 'muktars' from a selected number of villages are invited to the White Palace every month where they are hosted by the president and fed propaganda. The 'selected' number changes every month so that muktars from every locality in Turkey are invited.

They are asked to report about people in their district and all have a hot line to the presidential palace - the culture of spying began about two years ago.

Quote

swigging raki after work

 Have you seen the price of raki? the majority of people cannot afford to swig raki after work.

[desdemona 1,405]

2 hours ago, Eshek said:

 Have you seen the price of raki? the majority of people cannot afford to swig raki after work.

They did it on company's account ;)

[desdemona 1,405]

3 hours ago, French bean said:

The same could be said of 1930's Germany, many weren't interested with politics, just normal life. However, after democracy was dismantled and a culture of spying on your neighbour introduced people became fearful and dared not voice opposition. The coup is being used to remove anyone that stands in the way whether legitimately involved or not. Democracy is being dismantled with the arrests of opposition MP's and the up and coming referendum. The fear is beginning. There are already reports of Turkish children being asked to report whatever their parents say.

All the more for Europe to make a clear stand to Turkey that their internal affairs must be kept at home. And strengthen defense at the borders. If Turkey wants dictatorship, let them have it. There's never any good from trying to intervene in other country's affairs. Sorry but we can't save the whole world, if the whole world don't want to be saved. 

[French bean 3,463]

He's at it again, Pot calling the Kettle black. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39339770  Does he really believe the EU needs Turkey more than Turkey needs the EU? A former well known little corporal was a gambler but then he gambled too far over Poland. Suspect this guy will do the same and it will of course be someone elses fault when it all comes home to roost.