Germans infertile?

217 posts in this topic

5 hours ago, vmelchers said:

Germany as a country kills sexdrive.

You can't even relax on Saturday morning and get it on because you have to get out of bed ASAP to run your errands at the same time as 80 other million people who need to get shit done by 8 p.m. because everything is closed on Sunday.

Nonsense! Don't you see that it means you have all of Sunday to reproduce?

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When i first came her the opening times where mon to fri 0800-1800 sat 0800 - 1300 and i still managed to have 3 kids, so where is the problem?

 

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8 hours ago, Conquistador said:

Saudi's population has doubled since 1990. Not my idea of stable, and, bear in mind, that a growing population means a lot more people that have to be bought off so they don't make an issue of the huge royal family's autocratic rule- it doesn't mean more people producing more goods and services.

 

Do they actually produce any goods and services by themselves?

My impression is that they import high-skilled Westerners to do the advanced work and low-skilled people from the developing countries to do the unskilled work.

 

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7 hours ago, topcat 1 said:

 

Is this Nordicism or Ayranism?

 

No, it's Islamism.

 

7 hours ago, topcat 1 said:

Unbelievable, how a topic about German fertility has morphed into another political discussion.

 

Fertility question is highly political, why are you surprised?

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17 hours ago, LeonG said:

Maybe it has something to do with the ages they are trying.  In Iceland, most people still have lots of kids but they mostly start early too.  Nobody thinks it's a problem to have a baby while you are still at university for example.  Germans tend to be more organized and they wait.  First you have to finish your studies, then you have to get a good job, then you have to wait until you have a permanent contract at your job and maybe you have to wait until you've bought a house as well.  By the time you have done all that, you and your wife have reached your 30's and fertility is dropping fast, at least for the women.

 

You have a valid point in people delaying children in Germany until a very late age (40s for a lot of people whereas in Canada, Eastern Europe it seems to be late 20s).  For a woman to try and get pregnant for the first time at age 40 is an uphill battle but I know lots of couples of ethnic Germans in their late 20s and early 30s that can't have kids or are a risk pregnancy and age 30 isn't that old for a woman (even though she's most fertile at around 20-25).  We had our first after we hit the 30 mark and it didn't take too long so I don't know what's going on here.

 

15 hours ago, klubbnika said:

Did you note these couples socio-economical circumstances?

Nowadays, there is plenty of medical help available for those who have problems with fertility, including IVF.

Another explanation could be that the people who you spoke to do not really want kids but since it is a taboo to admit it, they pretend they have troubles concieving.

They are mostly middle class people and I know for a fact that all of these couples want to have kids.  A few are under going therapies and are undertaking a detailed analysis of how to have kids (ie. when the woman is ovulating, what position is best for conception, fertility medication etc.).  I understand that medical help is available but I just don't get why it's necessary on such a massive scale?  My father barely touched my mother and nine months later I came into the world. :D

 

13 hours ago, Erdmann said:

 

Precisely...the media (all the shitty sitcoms and ads and films) is just filling the heads of the youth these days (massively since 10-15 years) about the "horrors" of having kids, while another ethnic community is having on an average of 3 kids per family. Putting my tin hat foil, there is an agenda here. ;)

 

Only-nazis-did-propaganda.jpg

I totally agree.  The "horrors" of having children is exaggerated.  It is a huge responsibility and you can't get drunk every weekend or go on a road trip whenever you feel like it.  And yes proper parenting is a challenge but it's an unbelievable feeling.  When my daughter was barely 8 months old she was learning to crawl.  She couldn't talk obviously and just babbled.  But when I got home from work she just dragged herself towards me shrieking in excitement.  This little thing couldn't even yet crawl properly nor could she understand why but she was putting all her enthusiasm and energy to get to her daddy as soon as possible.  No vacation, career, or freedom could replace that feeling. :D

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10 hours ago, vmelchers said:

Germany as a country kills sexdrive.

You can't even relax on Saturday morning and get it on because you have to get out of bed ASAP to run your errands at the same time as 80 other million people who need to get shit done by 8 p.m. because everything is closed on Sunday. The long lines and lousy service put everyone in horrible mood which further kills libido and require heavy drinking (which doesn't necessarily help in the sack).

By the time Sunday morning runs along you either need to host your family, clean, or go to Church. Then it's Monday again, your train is late and you want to kill yourself.

 

Do you really think it's that different in Canada?  I mean you get less vacation, sick leave and work longer hours there.  Granted the lack of Sunday shopping is a bit of a headache sometimes but I usually do my errands after work on weekdays.  There may be some truth in the fact that Germans or German men are generally less forward with women (I can't tell you how many pretty, educated and intelligent German women I know who are single and looking) than us southerners and therefore are perceived of having less of a sex drive than say Italians or Greeks.  But then again sex is all that ClownLear talks about in the Berlin section of this forum and he's German.

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4 minutes ago, J0ker said:

I totally agree.  The "horrors" of having children is exaggerated.  It is a huge responsibility and you can't get drunk every weekend or go on a road trip whenever you feel like it.....No vacation, career, or freedom could replace that feeling. :D

 

That thought brings me immense joy now. If you had told me this 2 years back, I would have been like "meh". B) I was once a victim of this "child-free" brainwashing, not anymore. 

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11 hours ago, vmelchers said:

You can't even relax on Saturday morning and get it on because you have to get out of bed ASAP to run your errands at the same time as 80 other million people...

Well, my neighbour is always getting some on each Saturday morning between 8 and 9 am. No other days. She makes so much noise that I even don't bother to set the alarm. German punctuality has its benefits ?.

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19 hours ago, LeonG said:

First you have to finish your studies, then you have to get a good job, then you have to wait until you have a permanent contract at your job and maybe you have to wait until you've bought a house as well. 

 

Many of my German friends don't have stable jobs with permanent contracts and/or don't earn enough to support a family comfortably.

 

On the other hand, I suspect that many German women are rather loathe to give up a good career when they can finally afford to start a family. 

 

2 hours ago, J0ker said:

Do you really think it's that different in Canada?  I mean you get less vacation, sick leave and work longer hours there. 

 

Working mothers are not stigmatised in Canada the way they are here (Rabenmutter). Furthermore, the school day is longer, which makes childcare less of an issue.

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2 hours ago, engelchen said:

On the other hand, I suspect that many German women are rather loathe to give up a good career when they can finally afford to start a family. 

Why do having kids need to be a career kill?

 

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2 hours ago, engelchen said:

Working mothers are not stigmatised in Canada the way they are here (Rabenmutter). Furthermore, the school day is longer, which makes childcare less of an issue

 

They are not stigmatized in Scandinavia either. In fact, staying home with kids is kind of stigmatized.

The worst stigmatization of working women, or women in general, I have seen in the UK.

Whatever a woman does, she can't win.

She is blamed for working, not working, having kids, not having kids... quite horrible actually.

 

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In Germany there is still East/West divide on this (with East being more progressive, well, this was one of the few positives of socialism).

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I'm doing my bit for German population growth.  Boy No.2 due next week (eek).

 

As our lovely (German) paediatrician says:  "the Germans prefer nice holidays to kids."

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FYI, my experience has been that there is also hostility towards fathers in the workplace if they take parental leave, need to adjust their schedule, or have to pick up their kids. In my department of twelve, only four of us has kids, and only I have more than two. The hostility, BTW, came from the boss (who has kids) and his sycophant (also two), and neither of them plays as active a role in their kids' life as I do in mine.

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I wonder if I live in a parallel society to all you guys. I'm currently on maternity leave so my experience with this whole baby topic is pretty fresh.

First of all, there seems to be loads of babies being born in Germany, as demonstrated by the thinly stretched resources. It starts long before the due date, when you can't find a hebamme, a gyn or a place in a hospital because they're all full. I gave birth in a small examination room on a narrow bed and was wheeled to the corridor for the postpartum baby bonding, because all the delivery rooms were taken. A friend was squeezed with four other women into a 4 people room. All the kiddy shops are completly full of parents fighting for the attention of the few overworked staff. Don't even mention the Kitas.  

As for the age of mothers, I sometimes watch the women' programmes on day TV (don't judge me, sometimes I feel like I'm brain dead already) like zwischen tull and Tränen or this wedding show and I'm always amazed how young the brides are and how many of them have kids already. 

The only Polish girlfriends of mine who got pregnant before 25 did it accidentally (bringing it up since someone mentioned the situation in eastern europe). 

Someone also mentioned the aspect of Rabenmütter, ie. the pressure the society puts here on women to forfeit their professional life for the sake of children and I have to agree. I have chosen to work part time for half a year following my year long maternity break and I admit being influenced by the society in that decision, which is again contrasting to what I see back home, where the women are welcomed or even expected to come back to work full time. There also seems to be few women who have worked their way up to the higher echelons of the managerial world, the expectations being that they stay home while the hubbies pursue their career. Whereas you'll find equal numbers of men and women at the start of their careers. 

Interesting discussion, all in all.

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Just a thought, but I know in Germany there is not enough selenium and iodine in the soil which can lead to Hypothryroidism. I know a lot of people who have issues with their thyroid gland here in Germany. It is well known that an underactive thyroid gland can cause issues with fertility.

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Well, in my circle of German family and friends here, almost everyone has two or three kids. Only one has one child, and that because the parents are divorced, otherwise they'd have made more. The ex-husband has a new girlfriend now and there's already talk about 'having a half-sister'. One cousin is childless, but everyone else has two or three. 

I think the rabenmutter stigma is more about mothers who try to have a career, as opposed to mothers who just work minimal part-time jobs. Everyone accepts that the mothers work for a short amount of time in a day, to finish just in time to pick up the kids. But when the mothers work long hours, go on business trips,  smooching with the big boys at corporate functions, take short elternzeit to keep their positions, that's when eyebrows start to raise.

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Well, Angela Merkel does not have kids. That says quite a lot about society.

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57 minutes ago, yourkeau said:

Well, Angela Merkel does not have kids. That says quite a lot about society.

 

I think she may not have been able to.  I seem to remember that.

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2 hours ago, Conquistador said:

FYI, my experience has been that there is also hostility towards fathers in the workplace if they take parental leave, need to adjust their schedule, or have to pick up their kids. In my department of twelve, only four of us has kids, and only I have more than two. The hostility, BTW, came from the boss (who has kids) and his sycophant (also two), and neither of them plays as active a role in their kids' life as I do in mine.

 

I have better experiences.

 

My boss has three girls and he's totally understanding.  Always asking how my wife's pregnancy is going. 

 

Dads get a day's free holiday at my firm and cos most of us need to clock in and out we have a lot of overtime, and we can bugger off whenever (within reason - obviously not ignoring meetings or calls).  We need to do our 8.5 hours, but it was really useful when my boy went to the Kita nearby.  I would pop him off around 7.20, in work at 7.30 and out at around 3.40 to pick him up.

 

Sounds like you work with straight-up arseholes, Conk.

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