Bavaria plans burqa ban

522 posts in this topic

I don't think the ban in school is only addressed to students but to the staff. I think that is the bigger concern. Should children be taught by someone they can not see?

 

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This theory can be tested by an enterprising teacher who goes to school in a balaclava.

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And no more entering the school premises while still wearing those pesky motorbike helmets.

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I am for burqa ban for security reasons...it should not be allowed in public building or place..but am impressed with @zeino .. thats the kind of thinking needed for a beneficial change rather than banning a piece of cloth or personal choice ...

 

i can vaugely figure out now...why the trump got elected..

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I welcome the ban. Though following the discussion between zeino and Lisa13 , I am reminded of a case in Switzerland which was discussed on one of the refugee threads. The father - an imam -  had/has three daughters. The mother was fully veiled and was hardly seen in the neighbourhood. The eldest daughter was sent back to Syria to be married off. The youngest daughter at 13 rebelled, because she didn't want to wear those awful clothes. She fled to a Frauenhaus for protection. The middle daughter suddenly no longer appeared at school. Nobody knows what happened to her. Probably also sent back to Syria. 

 

This is a big problem. Such girls, if they don't conform, would presumably become victims of honour killings. The girl who fled to the Frauenhaus will need to hide all her life - or succumb to family/clan pressure like her sisters.

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Germany, like most if not all European countries (There's always an exception) is a tolerent country. Different religions and cultures are tolerated but that does not mean that these cultural differences should then be promoted as the norm. Would someone please tell me where in the Koran or Muslim teachings it says that women must be fully covered? As I understand it it states women should dress modestly. OK, modesty means different things to different people but back to my initial point this can come under cultural difference but here, the rule of the land in which people live should take precedent and here that means women are generally under the laware equal to men and have the right to freedom of choice. So if they wish to wear a Burqa then fine but it has to be their choice and they have to accept that it will not be accepted everywhere just like the indigenous population has to accept being drunk and sick all over the place is unacceptable or carrying a concealed weapon is. The male perpetrators of domination over females are the ones who need to be targeted for they are the ones who are preventing women from exercising their right to freedom of choice.

 

Personally I am for banning because it has been used so often for criminal activity, to evade arrest and to dominate another person.

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58 minutes ago, Krieg said:

And no more entering the school premises while still wearing those pesky motorbike helmets.

In Portugal a lot of places refuse entrance to people wearing motorbike helmet. Banks are a good example.

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3 minutes ago, French bean said:

Personally I am for banning because it has been used so often for criminal activity


This is probably the dumbest reason they can bring to the table.   It is not like the guy who is going to rob a bank will think "Hey, covering my face is now against the law, better I do not cover it".   It will only affect the people who are not covering the face with the intention of breaking the law.

 

There are much more valid reasons they can bring to support the ban and I actually think Bavaria is probably in the good path to do it properly.  Banning it only in certain places and using the social interaction as the main reason.

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Geez, I'm sorry I even asked!

 

So, once you all tally up the number of hijab/niqab/burka/alamira/shayla/khimar/chador/Make-America-Great-Again-hat wearing people in your towns, what are you going to do with the information?

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I used to be for individual freedoms but now I am for the ban.

I cannot be a feminist fighting for my right to equal pay, enjoy the Vagina monologues and admire Beyonce in a leotard and at the same time make an excuse for the burka / niqab knowing they are considered by many muslim women as a tool of opression. 

The West is getting a bit confused on this topic. Like if I am against the bikqab and burka I would be a racist. But that is not true.

 In the women's march protests after Trump there were posters of a woman wearing an american flag as a Headscarf. Now that is confusion. Also the swedish women government officials wearing a headscarf in Iran was another mis-step in my opinion.

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41 minutes ago, Krieg said:


This is probably the dumbest reason they can bring to the table.   It is not like the guy who is going to rob a bank will think "Hey, covering my face is now against the law, better I do not cover it".   It will only affect the people who are not covering the face with the intention of breaking the law.

 

I see your point but it has been used by radicalised islamists to hide, to move through the community unhindered (the same guys who see women as below them yet are happy to dress as a women). It is a case of making life difficult for these pigs.

 

Religion is used too often as an excuse to push through immoral and bigoted attitudes.

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49 minutes ago, vmelchers said:

I used to be for individual freedoms but now I am for the ban.

I cannot be a feminist fighting for my right to equal pay, enjoy the Vagina monologues and admire Beyonce in a leotard and at the same time make an excuse for the burka / niqab knowing they are considered by many muslim women as a tool of opression. 

The West is getting a bit confused on this topic. Like if I am against the bikqab and burka I would be a racist. But that is not true.

Best post of the thread IMO.

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3 hours ago, programdirector said:

I don't think the ban in school is only addressed to students but to the staff. I think that is the bigger concern. Should children be taught by someone they can not see?

 

Where did you get this nonsense?

It if forbidden for any Beamte in Bavaria to wear any kind of religious symbols, this includes hijab and burqa. It is also forbidden to wear hijab in a court as a lawyer, there was a case when one woman protested, but to no avail. At the same time I'm not sure about schools, but at the court room there is a big cross hanging.

 

Also, even if niqab was allowed for a teacher, chances of getting a job is 0,00000000%

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17 hours ago, Metall said:

About eight African women in niqabs (long veil enclosing body, head, hair, tightly fitted around the face) spend the entire day in my local phone card shop.

They like to watch Musli preacher videos on the laptop in the evening in the store.

And guessing from the police cars cruising by and people watching from a distance, they are being monitored.

are we sure that they are women?

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6 minutes ago, desdemona said:

are we sure that they are women?

You are never sure until you do the good old crocodile Dundee hand-balls shaking!

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Good, the Burqa is one of the most disgusting ways to clothe a person (woman) - ever. Headscarves and other ways of dressing modestly are fine, but a person's face should always be visible when in public. Not to mention, Burqa is cultural, and not a religious requirement, which merely correlates with religious background.

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2 hours ago, vmelchers said:

they are considered by many muslim women as a tool of opression

 

Some women in Austria demonstrated against burqa ban not so long time ago.

Among other things in burqa's defence they said it was "empowering" to wear it.

 

I cannot really understand that argument. How can a symbol of opression/submission be empowering? It's a huge stretch to claim that.

What is next, FGM is also "empowering"?

 

On the other hand, I heard many Western women saying that wearing high heels is empowering. Hmmmmm... :)

 

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19 hours ago, yourkeau said:

 

Freedom of religion is hijab. Since there is nothing in islam which prescribed to wear burqa, you can't use this argument.


Spot on!

There is a difference between freedom of religion and dangerous extremism.

I know a few Muslims, married. their wife has this Hijab (?) thing on their hair, but other then that - they are modern and very good people.

Burqa bringing ignorance and extremism to Germany.  When I see a women wearing this thing - I can assure you that her human rights are being discriminated without even knowing her.

Same like penis circumcision is prohibited in Germany and is one of the religious Jew's important rituals for the newborn. and as there are religious Muslim in Germany, there are also religious Jews - the disallowance of certain things is not breaching freedom of religion when it is being made to avoid extremism and primitivism .

I hope that this new regulation will pass and start being enforced.

Germany has became in the recent 2-3 years to be a land flooded with those extreme primitive barbaric cultures that do not fit in Europe, yet try to force them self upon the countries. this has to be stopped.

They should at least try to blend in , if they don't want to - they shouldn't be here from the first place.

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19 minutes ago, dannys said:

Same like penis circumcision is prohibited in Germany and is one of the religious Jew's important rituals for the newborn. and as there are religious Muslim in Germany, there are also religious Jews - the disallowance of certain things is not breaching freedom of religion when it is being made to avoid extremism and primitivism .

Circumcision isn't prohibited in Germany. 

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@dannys, unfortunately, @Allershausen is correct, details here. It is the case despite a lot of resistance -- I have mostly been following the Giordano Bruno Stiftung in these matters; they had a nice campaign when these issues were discussed a few years ago. German pediatricians and researchers from a centre for pain research were clearly against allowing ritual circumcision as they say doing this causes irreversible changes to little boys' brains. Some religious experts talked in the Bundestag about how, for example, circumcision is not needed for someone to be considered a Jew, although many people claim otherwise, and that this is purely cultural (just like the niqab and the burqa). All to no avail. The German government likes to please religious leaders and the Christian ones supported the Jewish and the Muslim clerics because they are worried about their own issues. Such a shame. 

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