Bavaria plans burqa ban

522 posts in this topic

34 minutes ago, Krieg said:

I bet if all Muslim women wore a beanie instead of a hijab we wouldn't be discussing this.

 

I agree. Orthodox Jewish women still cover their heads in advanced societies today. Many American Jews commonly do this, which is ritualistic itself. But wigs, hats etc are allowed so it is not visually shaking status quo that much. And often does not get discussed along the same inequality axis. So, we often talk about form rather than content really.  

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, cb6dba said:

I have seen this posted quite a bit over the last years.

The difference is a Nun works in/for the church. She is a representative, it is a uniform. No one else walks around like that, you have to be a Nun to wear one (well, I guess you don't but outside sexy Halloween parties I am not sure people do).
I don't like it, it is still gender specific clothing/job etc. Should also be dragged in to the 21st century.

 

 A Nun's habbit of walking around like that is no different to what a priest wears. 

Maybe we could Get Imam's to wear headscarves as well? No one has posted anything about cross dressing being forbidden in the Koran.
 

 

So, a head covering with religious connotations is not the same as a head covering with religious connotations because one works for the religious organization? If you carve that one out, does that mean sexy nun costumes are now forbidden as well? Can muslim women just say they're going to a costume party every day to get around it?

 

Priests don't cover their heads either. Maybe we should get them to do it as well?

 

 

16 minutes ago, Erdmann said:

 

 

Oh look, a fresh graduate from Social Justice Warrior college, using the same old false parallels. :D

 

Oh look, a sad excuse for a troll! Yawn. 

 

And seriously, nuns are evil. 

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am not so old, but in my lifetime growing up in the US, my mother wore a scarf when going out and there was a transition where girls started wearing pants as opposed to dresses to school (public school).  

 

The security issues around Burqas are understandable, but headscarves seem harmless. 

 

Which uniform causes more concern when dealing with someone at an office:  

 

1.  a woman wearing a headscarf

2.  a man or woman whose arms have tattoos which are visible through a white or light colored shirt

 

For banking, insurance, medical care, taxes, (2) is a red flag for me while (1) causes absolutely no concern. 

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, yourkeau said:

False! Neither this is a uniform nor she works for the church.

 

No, it's not. Monks have the same „dress code“.

 

Priests/pastors have a uniform, which they often choose not to wear outside the church. Totally different situation.

Nuns do not work for the church - who do they work for then?
Given that we are saying 'work' then they have a job. Which seems to have a uniform set by their employer..
Who does not have a problem with religious symbols.

I am fully ok with all this religious stuff of the context of a job with the church/mosque and not wearing it outside or in a job that has nothing to do with it.

 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Eupathic Impulse said:

Parallel societies are social phenomena that are caused by many different things at once.

The main reason for that are racist landlords who do not rent to foreigners. So they can only rent in a „bad“ neighborhood, and so are the others. If Syrians can only live in one ghetto, then this ghetto will live Syrian way.

 

To prevent this situation there should be a ghetto prevention law which forbids immigrant people from living in one immigrant neighborhoods, they should live together with Germans, so they learn the German way.

 

And who is against such policy? Both left and right, even that their reasons are different.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So landlords are the main problem and not that immigrants want to live close to their families and friends and where they can afford to live.

 

Brilliant deduction.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, punkinside said:

 

So, a head covering with religious connotations is not the same as a head covering with religious connotations because one works for the religious organization? If you carve that one out, does that mean sexy nun costumes are now forbidden as well? Can muslim women just say they're going to a costume party every day to get around it?

 

Priests don't cover their heads either. Maybe we should get them to do it as well?

 

One would be a uniform... The sexy nun costumes we could allow for fancy dress parties.

Great idea mind, sexy Muslim fancy dress. Let's see how that goes down well when scores of scantly clad women wearing very religious looking headscarves hit the street. 
Which should be allowed as long as headscarves are allowed. I can't see it causing any problems. Especially if the route goes past a mosque. 

I am all for, as I said in my post, that all people working for the church should wear the same stuff. If women have to, so should men.
Are you saying this would be wrong?

Going further, we should have female priests and vicars.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, cb6dba said:


I am fully ok with all this religious stuff of the context of a job with the church/mosque and not wearing it outside or in a job that has nothing to do with it.

 

Right so nuns shouldn't be able to walk around wearing that thing outside of their convent (workplace) then?

 

It's funny how people have to twist themselves into all kinds of weird arguments to allow one type of religious head covering and disallowing another one.

 

The solution is quite easy: Let women wear whatever the fuck they want! Seriously, how is this something one has to talk about for 18 pages?

 

Here's a shocker: banning a garment won't end muslim women's oppression.

3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, yourkeau said:

The main reason for that are racist landlords who do not rent to foreigners. So they can only rent in a „bad“ neighborhood, and so are the others. If Syrians can only live in one ghetto, then this ghetto will live Syrian way.

 

To prevent this situation there should be a ghetto prevention law which forbids immigrant people from living in one immigrant neighborhoods, they should live together with Germans, so they learn the German way.

 

And who is against such policy? Both left and right, even that their reasons are different.

Ghetto prevention law. 

That's a little offensive isn't it? Not all immigrants live off social money, a lot of people on this forum for example.

 

If I were a landlord, I would not want the government telling me who I have to rent to. That is my property and I would not be happy even if the government made up any shortfall in rent.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, fraufruit said:

So landlords are the main problem and not that immigrants want to live close to their families and friends and where they can afford to live.

 

Brilliant deduction.

You can try that yourself. Apply for a place to rent by signing as Ahmed.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is there a classless Muslim existence in Europe? Has there been a secret Marxist revolution among Muslims or what? In the UK, there are various Muslim communities and countless individuals living in different lifestyles just like other religions do. Nobody questions these things for my Bengladeshi Muslim friend who is a dentist with a silk headscarf, whose brother is a psychiatrist, and who both live in very expensive houses, who contribute and donate to the British society (not faith based) where they were born actually and whose sons define themselves as Manchester United fans. These Muslims will have more stuff in common with their neighbours of whatever faith than with a Muslim community somewhere else.

 

I sometimes wonder if this Muslim thing has become a way of talking about something else?  

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, punkinside said:

Right so nuns shouldn't be able to walk around wearing that thing outside of their convent (workplace) then?

 

It's funny how people have to twist themselves into all kinds of weird arguments to allow one type of religious head covering and disallowing another one.

 

The solution is quite easy: Let women wear whatever the fuck they want! Seriously, how is this something one has to talk about for 18 pages?

 

Here's a shocker: banning a garment won't end muslim women's oppression.

No, Nuns should have to follow the law like everyone else. If Muslims cannot wear headscarves in public, neither should they.
You seem to think I am religious of would give a crap about nuns.

I haven't tried to allow one and not the other. I just pointed out that one is a uniform. I may have to write in less complicated sentences.

Let women wear what they want - A phrase all women all over the world would love to be able to live, along with driving etc. YOU jumped in at the 18 page mark, you tell us what the allure was?

It is impossible to stop people believing in a fairy tale, it is a personal choice and as such, employers should have the right to say they do not want to have it there. 

Which is what this judgement was about.

I cannot see a problem there.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, fraufruit said:

Many landlords don't rent to ANY foreigners because they fear they might leave the country without paying. 

Germany also has much fewer ghettos than other Europeans countries like France or Belgium. Maybe this has anything to do with the fact, that few landlords rent to foreigners, so they cannot be picky about neighborhoods they want to live in.

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, zeino said:

Is there a classless Muslim existence in Europe? Has there been a secret Marxist revolution among Muslims or what? In the UK, there are various Muslim communities and countless individuals living in different lifestyles just like other religions do. Nobody questions these things for my Bengladeshi Muslim friend who is a dentist with a silk headscarf, whose brother is a psychiatrist, and who both live in very expensive houses, who contribute and donate to the British society (not faith based) where they were born actually and whose sons define themselves as Manchester United fans. These Muslims will have more stuff in common with their neighbours of whatever faith than with a Muslim community somewhere else.

 

I sometimes wonder if this Muslim thing has become a way of talking about something else?  

As my friend J.R. Hartely once said; 

The western world is split in to two groups..
White people and immigrants. All the white people get on with each other and have all the money, all the immigrant like each other and have very little.
Racism is not possible in-between immigrants as they are not white.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, cb6dba said:


It is impossible to stop people believing in a fairy tale, it is a personal choice and as such, employers should have the right to say they do not want to have it there. 

Which is what this judgement was about.

I cannot see a problem there.

 

Because it has the negative, real-world effect of driving some women out of the economy.  Now, you may think, "oh, it's their choice, etc" -- but whatever the cause, it has that effect.  So it is a good idea?

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Eupathic Impulse said:

 

Because it has the negative, real-world effect of driving some women out of the economy.  Now, you may think, "oh, it's their choice, etc" -- but whatever the cause, it has that effect.  So it is a good idea?

Or they can not wear the garment or get a job where it is not forbidden.
I do not see why the rest of us should pander to people who take the song 'spirit in the sky' a little too literally.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, fraufruit said:

Many landlords don't rent to ANY foreigners because they fear they might leave the country without paying. 

 

Some landlords may be like that, but the stories I have heard from long-term residents and citizens of Germany with Turkish and other origins suggests something more systematic is afoot.  That may even no longer be as bad as it was (doubtful, considering AfD rise), but may be normalized so much that some Turks don't bother to look for housing outside of enclaves. 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, cb6dba said:

Or they can not wear the garment or get a job where it is not forbidden.

 

As a general rule, that bears the risk of severely reducing career options for some women, in practical terms.  ie, the outcome of this overall is bad.  Again, you may think, "why don't think rethink their beliefs so that they can get a better job?"  But some of them won't. So why not just let them have the damn job?

 

2 minutes ago, cb6dba said:


I do not see why the rest of us should pander to people who take the song 'spirit in the sky' a little too literally.

 

Why does it have to be "pandering"?  What cost it is to you that e.g. a receptionist covers her head?

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now