How to retain Niederlassungserlaubnis?

20 posts in this topic

Folks,

 

I was wondering if there is a way to retain Niederlassungserlaubnis after moving back to one's non-EU home country?

 

Maybe buying German property, renting a small apartment, etc. - in addition to flying back to Germany every 6 months.

 

Appreciate your advice.

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Flying back to Germany every 6 months is not enough, you have to LIVE in Germany for at least 6 months a year. And you have to keep registered, meaning you have to keep paying health insurance. There is a way to reduce the health insurance payment a bit while you are out.

You can get a permit from your local aliens office to extend your allowance per year from 6 months to 1 year out of the country. But after that there is not much you can do. As far as I know.

Maybe applying now for German citizenship if you can and you want to can be another option.

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@Krieg so one has to be a tax-resident i.e. live here for 6 months minimum to retain it! That's bit harsh. For green card in US - they just need to visit once a year

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Well having a RESIDENT permit requires you to be a resident of the country. If that's harsh that would be your interpretation.

You are supposed to live in Germany and to go out of the country for no more than 90 days in a single trip and no more than 180 days a year in total.

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46 minutes ago, kapil354 said:

@Krieg so one has to be a tax-resident i.e. live here for 6 months minimum to retain it! That's bit harsh. For green card in US - they just need to visit once a year

It isn't actually true that one need only visit the US as a green card holder to keep their permanent residence. People get away with doing this, but if caught, CBP can decide to send you to an immigration judge to make a decision unless you can prove sufficient ties to the US.

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2 hours ago, kaffeemitmilch said:

It isn't actually true that one need only visit the US as a green card holder to keep their permanent residence. People get away with doing this, but if caught, CBP can decide to send you to an immigration judge to make a decision unless you can prove sufficient ties to the US.

Didn't know that! Thanks for enlightening :)

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A better point: do you really want to have a residence permit if you don't need it? What's the use case?

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I can understand the point in keeping it. It takes very long to get an unlimited permit, so you might want to keep the door open to be able to come back if your new plans do not work.

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Hi everyone,

 

I am a non-EU resident and recently I got my Niederlassungserlaubnis.

 

I want to change my job. On the other hand, there is a personal project that I have always wanted to do and I need to take a few months off to work on it. 

 

Since I will be unemployed during these months, I was wondering to travel to my home country which is way way cheaper (10 times!) than here and live there while working on my project.

 

Now I know that I cannot stay more than six months outside Germany or I will loose my Niederlassungserlaubnis, but what other things I need to consider during this 6-month period?

  1. Do I need to fill out an Abmeldung form when leaving Germany?
  2. Do I need to have health insurance? How much normally does that cost?
  3. Will the other time periods I have been out of Germany this year (for example 20 days in January) be counted as part of that 6 month period?
  4. Anythings else that I should take care of?

Thank you

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1: That wouldn't be particularly clever - if you de-register (and give up your place of residence i.e. your flat) and don't have a job here either, there is no longer any connection to Germany and the authorities can assume that you are leaving for "a reason that is not only temporary in nature". Then your NE expires immediately. And the Aliens Department will know of your de-registration immediately, too. 

 

2: Yes, you have to keep your KV while you are registered in Germany, what that costs depends on the health insurance (but I don't answer questions about health insurance here anymore).

 

3: Nope (but to come back shortly before the end of the 6 months and then leave again does not work either).

 

4: As long as you are registered in Germany, all your obligations from contracts (telephone etc.) and e.g. the payment of the radio/tv fee continue. 

 

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10 hours ago, someonesdaughter said:

1: That wouldn't be particularly clever - if you de-register (and give up your place of residence i.e. your flat) and don't have a job here either, there is no longer any connection to Germany and the authorities can assume that you are leaving for "a reason that is not only temporary in nature". Then your NE expires immediately. And the Aliens Department will know of your de-registration immediately, too. 

 

2: Yes, you have to keep your KV while you are registered in Germany, what that costs depends on the health insurance (but I don't answer questions about health insurance here anymore).

 

3: Nope (but to come back shortly before the end of the 6 months and then leave again does not work either).

 

4: As long as you are registered in Germany, all your obligations from contracts (telephone etc.) and e.g. the payment of the radio/tv fee continue. 

 

Thank you for your answer. It seems the best idea is to work till getting the citizenship :p

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On 2/6/2019, 9:44:31, vahidce said:

Hi everyone,

 

I am a non-EU resident and recently I got my Niederlassungserlaubnis.

 

I want to change my job. On the other hand, there is a personal project that I have always wanted to do and I need to take a few months off to work on it. 

 

Since I will be unemployed during these months, I was wondering to travel to my home country which is way way cheaper (10 times!) than here and live there while working on my project.

 

Now I know that I cannot stay more than six months outside Germany or I will loose my Niederlassungserlaubnis, but what other things I need to consider during this 6-month period?

  1. Do I need to fill out an Abmeldung form when leaving Germany?
  2. Do I need to have health insurance? How much normally does that cost?
  3. Will the other time periods I have been out of Germany this year (for example 20 days in January) be counted as part of that 6 month period?
  4. Anythings else that I should take care of?

Thank you

 

1. A non-EU should never do Abmeldung because it might render its permit invalid.

2. Yes, you need it.  However you can "freeze" your insurance for some months, there is minimum length and you have to provide proof of insurance in the place you are going to be and/or decent travel insurance.  After your insurance is frozen you pay a much lower monthly fee, something like 60 EUR a month.

3. The rule is 90 days every 180 days as default and double with a special permit from the AB.  So count from the first day of those 20 days and see if they overlap or not.

4. If by "unemployed" you mean collecting unemployment insurance then you can forget about it.   You are not in permanent holidays when collecting welfare.  Imagine you are then an employee of the unemployment offices and they expect you to work on finding a job.  You even have to apply for holidays to them if you plan to go somewhere and you have limited amount of holidays a year.

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If your personal project is a business start up then you can think about applying for strartup grant 

That way you will be able to establish the businesss and also retain the NE.

 

For NE to continue you need to prove that you have a Lebensmittelpunkt here in Germany.

So, if you keep a temporary apartment or a room that should suffice, I "guess".

 

If citizenship is important for you then please check with a lawyer - they know all the ways out :)

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On 2/11/2019, 8:22:52, Krieg said:

 

1. A non-EU should never do Abmeldung because it might render its permit invalid.

2. Yes, you need it.  However you can "freeze" your insurance for some months, there is minimum length and you have to provide proof of insurance in the place you are going to be and/or decent travel insurance.  After your insurance is frozen you pay a much lower monthly fee, something like 60 EUR a month.

3. The rule is 90 days every 180 days as default and double with a special permit from the AB.  So count from the first day of those 20 days and see if they overlap or not.

4. If by "unemployed" you mean collecting unemployment insurance then you can forget about it.   You are not in permanent holidays when collecting welfare.  Imagine you are then an employee of the unemployment offices and they expect you to work on finding a job.  You even have to apply for holidays to them if you plan to go somewhere and you have limited amount of holidays a year.

Thanks for replying. My plan was to be six months away at my home country without applying for unemployment insurance and without having to pay rent and etc. It seems it is not feasible with the current regulations.

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On 2/12/2019, 3:31:40, kapil354 said:

If your personal project is a business start up then you can think about applying for strartup grant 

That way you will be able to establish the businesss and also retain the NE.

 

For NE to continue you need to prove that you have a Lebensmittelpunkt here in Germany.

So, if you keep a temporary apartment or a room that should suffice, I "guess".

 

If citizenship is important for you then please check with a lawyer - they know all the ways out :)

Thanks for your answer kapil. It is a software. I have of course not developed all of it but I have started it. Is it possible to get funds for it? 

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On 2/14/2019, 8:15:29, vahidce said:

Thanks for your answer kapil. It is a software. I have of course not developed all of it but I have started it. Is it possible to get funds for it? 

Yes you can have a look here 

 

https://www.hk24.de/en/produktmarken/startup/point-single-contact/top-funding-programmes/1168664 

 

The busniess plan needs to be prepared and submited for approval in German. In most cases, you will get the grant. Success rates are high. 

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On 2/6/2019, 9:44:31, vahidce said:

 

Now I know that I cannot stay more than six months outside Germany or I will loose my Niederlassungserlaubnis

 

Well you can stay more outside of Germany if the ABH allows that (or if you received your permit based on Blue Card). 

 

As for the funds you can take a look at applying to be an Existenzgründer (funding from unemployment insurance) or participating in an accelerator (funding from private or public sources). 

 

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On 2/14/2019, 8:13:48, vahidce said:

Thanks for replying. My plan was to be six months away at my home country without applying for unemployment insurance and without having to pay rent and etc. It seems it is not feasible with the current regulations.

Why? It‘s entirely feasible if you can give up your apartment and find a friend who can legally provide access to their apartment in Germany for free and register you there. As long as you continue to do everything the resident of Germany does, don’t ask for public money, are able to return at any moment and respect the 6 month rule, I don‘t see any issues with the Plan. 

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On 2/17/2019, 2:32:30, ilyann said:

don’t ask for public money, are able to return at any moment and respect the 6 month rule, I don‘t see any issues with the Plan. 

Does ALG I come under Social Welfare or just Insurance Benefit?

 

Isn't it like you pay-in and then when you are in need you get paid-out from the ALG fund? I always thought that ALG I is more like Insurance, and ALG II comes under social welfare. 

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32 minutes ago, honigbiene said:

Does ALG I come under Social Welfare or just Insurance Benefit?

 

Insurance

 

32 minutes ago, honigbiene said:

 

Isn't it like you pay-in and then when you are in need you get paid-out from the ALG fund? I always thought that ALG I is more like Insurance, and ALG II comes under social welfare. 

 

That's correct – but with the rights come also obligations: who gets ALG1, must be available to the labour market, being prepared to attend appointments at the employment office, apply (and possibly prove it to the employment office) for vacancies . Vacation must be applied for too and there is also no more than three weeks vacation. 

 

 

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