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Six Nations Rugby Championships 2019

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The funny thing was that England did not actually know the rules.

 

How can you play rugby for your country and not actually know the rules ?


Match was still a farce though.

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This is far for being the only time in rugby history that one team has refused to assemble in rucks. The AB and quite a few A-listers have used this tactic before, I suspect we will see much more of this. It is in essence not that different from the maul strategy for Japan for RWC2015.

It was well played by the Italians and England failed to adapt quickly. 

They still won because, well... It was Italy.

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I don't think the six nations committee will be so kind to the Italians.

 

The six nations is the best attended sporting event in the world. It has higher attendance than even the NFL or the football world cup.

 

If teams play like that the public will feel cheated and will not bother turning up to watch.

 

It may be clever but as a spectacle it was a terrible match of rugby. 

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Committee wont do anything, no rules have been broken. Over the years there have been many many terrible games in the 6 nations. dour dour penalty fests with no tries scored.  This was just a case of England being upset over not a lot.  Italy will not play like that next game anyway.  

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I would be rightly pissed is sanctions were taken and rules adapted. There are plenty of ways to overcome this tactic and profit from it.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/89831868/how-italys-offside-tackle-tactics-caught-england-off-guard-and-how-to-counter-it

 

Had this happened in front of anybody else nobody would have batted an eyelid! Really the inventors of fairplay are the worst!

 

England should have been more reactive, it is inconceivable that it took them so long to counteract.

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There is a lot of talk of a playoff between the bottom six nation team and the best team from the tier 2 competition (Georgia).

 

Also the Pro 12 is in talks with Georgia bringing a team to the Pro 12.

 

Performances like that will only increase pressure for Georgia to be allowed into the 6 Nations.

 

Also Georgia are 2 or 3 places above Italy in the world rankings.

 

After yesterdays debacle I would rather let Georgia join rather than have a rugby match like that again.

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The first half might not have been pretty to watch, but Italy aren’t at fault for not playing the way England wanted them to. I didn’t think Jones’ “take them to the cleaners” comment was too helpful last week. Whilst it didn’t look good yesterday, if our half backs realised they could just pick the ball up and run on (with the other in support), it would have a more open game.

In any event, it’s always better to have an off game and/or reality check against a relatively weak side, rather than sticking 50+ points on Italy and having an uphill battle in the final game against Ireland (or, from the way they are playing at the moment, even Scotland). A good learning experience, and still a comfortable win in the end.

Highlights a bit of a longstanding problem for the national team: players failing to think and adapt to an unexpected tactic…. remember Jannie de Beer going for drop goals every time he had the ball in the ’99 World Cup? I think he slotted 5 or 6 in that one game, knowing that England’s forwards were too slow/too tired to close him down.

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Is it fair to Scotland what happened yesterday.

 

England have basically had a month off to prepare for the Scotland match.

 

Scotland had a bruising encounter with Wales while England was playing touch rugby with Italy.

 

It really cheats the whole competition.

 

There has to be an offside line, you can´t have the farcical scenes where players are everywhere waving their arms up and down.

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38 minutes ago, RenegadeFurther said:

 

It was closed last week, but I suspect yesterdays performance by Italy might cause a re-think.

 

You really think the 6 Nation organiser would allow a 27k seats stadium (  Mikheil Meskhi Stadium ) to host a 6 nation game?

If I am not mistaken most international rugby stadium must have more than 50k seats.

 

Furthermore they already have enough of a hard time selling out for the home games in Rome (warm sunny Rome) without opening a venue in Tbilissi

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4 minutes ago, RenegadeFurther said:

Doesn´t Georgia attract more than 50,000 ?

 

http://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/39050894

 

Italy have been a disaster for European rugby 

 

Their club sides are an embarrassment and after yesterday I don't think Italian rugby can go any lower.

 

You realize the article says that it would be difficult to play the home games in Tbilisi? 

There is no mention about more than 50k. In any cases where would they play?

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Insofar as there is a positive/negative for Scotland, I think that is just the nature of tournament rugby. As I mentioned earlier on this thread, the largest bias in the tournament has generally been for the side playing Italy last. If (and it's a BIG if) Scotland were somehow to beat England, and we both go into the final games level on points, so that points difference is likely to be the deciding factor - is it really fair that England's last game is against Ireland whereas Scotland would be at home to a (probably very tired) Italy?

As a 6 Nations fan, you just have to take the rough with the smooth in terms of game order.

So, I won't have too much sympathy for Scotland next game - don't forget, they got to play Ireland without Sexton. As we could see on Saturday (and as New Zealand know from the autumn) Ireland are a very different team with him playing.

Italy deserve a break though, they won't get better by being relegated to playing Spain (and Germany). It would have been a huge pity (for rugby fans everywhere) if Sergio Parisse hadn't played top level international rugby. They just don't have the playing population (and finances) to adapt to a new more open style of play as quickly as the main northern hemisphere sides. I've always enjoyed their wins over Scotland!

 

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4 minutes ago, quietlaugh said:

 

There is no mention about more than 50k. In any cases where would they play?

 

Second paragraph.

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We can agree to disagree about Italy.

 

However regarding the Scotland v Wales match I don`t think I have ever seen a situation where the captain was overruled.

 

http://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/39092731

 

You have a situation where the captain wants 3 points with one of the best kickers in the world and the team (kicker) over rule him. Crazy. 

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11 minutes ago, RenegadeFurther said:

 

Second paragraph.

 

Ah yes I stand corrected. Were on earth are they playing then? Since their home stadium is too small?

 

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2 hours ago, dstanners said:

don't forget, they got to play Ireland without Sexton. As we could see on Saturday (and as New Zealand know from the autumn) Ireland are a very different team with him playing.

 

 

Scotland also have their 2 main props out injured. WP Nel (truly world class) and Dickinson. If Scotland had there 2 main props available it is very possible that they could have beaten France and even more emphatically beaten Ireland as Scotland gave away 9 penalties in the first 2 matches because of the scrum.

 

If Scotland had there first choice props available and Ireland had Sexton Scotland would have won even more emphatically.

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10 hours ago, RenegadeFurther said:

I personally though that the Italian tactics were shocking. This was not rugby but a complete farce.

It really cheats the whole competition.

If ever there was a case for kicking Italy out of the six nations yesterday was it.

Rugby is a contact sport, if Italy can`t compete they should be replaced. I really hope the six nations committee throw Italy out and after this. I would suggest there would be talk to do this. People pay to see a  contact sport not having players waving their hands about and zero contact in the entire match. The public were cheated. Italy must now be replaced by Georgia.

There has to be an offside line, you can´t have the farcical scenes where players are everywhere waving their arms up and down.

 

Such farcical scenes of exasperated players waving their arms in the air can only be stopped if those same players were well-versed in this clever tactic. It's part of the Rugby Union Law book (Laws 11 to 11.9 and Law 16.5 [a]) and kudos to both referee Romain Poite and Italy coach Conor O'Shea for knowing full well of that particular game play. Eddie Jones, his England team and the booing England supporters can't be blamed for not realizing such a legal loophole exists, that's because it's rarely used, and rugby union is a complex game full of tactics, rules, etc. In fact, England skipper Dylan Hartley and teammate James Haskell asked Poite in the match what advice he could give them in dealing with this type of play, and Poite was right to say he's a referee, not a coach. In other words, it's up to the teams to learn the rules and not the referees to help them during the game so as to avoid any bias. As mentioned in that New Zealand sports article posted by Kiwistylz and quietlaugh, other teams in other tournaments have used the little-known tactic before. It's been used in Sevens rugby, in Super Rugby by the Chiefs, and by All Blacks openside flanker Richie McCaw. But there's also been some discussion of a change or a ban to that law, and as mentioned on the RugbyRefs.com blog, any changes to rugby laws are never done mid-season. So Italy may still use it in their remaining matches (although their secret is out now). 

 

RenegadeFurther, I would say that it would be overreacting when there's talk about banning Italy because of their exploitation of this loophole. If it were a case of improving the game for the sake of fairness, then a change in the law or an outright ban of the tactic is the right approach. There's already been discussion of a revision of that law so that it doesn't continue to be an absolutely rucking mess, but as mentioned on the RugbyRefs.com blog, any changes to rugby laws are never done mid-season.

 

Let's not forget that little piece of trivia which led to the formation of an international standard set of laws and ultimately an international governing body: In 1884 England claimed they scored a try against Scotland but the Scots disputed it. After letters were sent between the two countries, the try was recorded in the books because England "claimed to make the rules." There sure were a lot of angry Scots soon after that. ;)

 

I take it you watched that post-game interview where England coach Eddie Jones mentioned the Australian cricket player Trevor Chappell's underarm bowling move against New Zealander Brian McKechnie? In that infamous 1981 incident, Australia won using that unsavory yet legal tactic. With the England vs. Italy match on the weekend, the bamboozled England team still won comfortably despite Italy's unsavory tactic.

 

 

 

7 hours ago, RenegadeFurther said:

Italy have been a disaster for European rugby 

Their club sides are an embarrassment and after yesterday I don't think Italian rugby can go any lower.

 

You have to follow the latest in the Azzurri rugby match results to see a much better picture. Since hiring Harlequin coach Conor O'Shea last March, Italy have had some significant wins. They beat Argentina, the United States, Canada, and most notably, South Africa - all this within O'Shea's first twelve months. That's putting Italy in the right direction (albeit a long slow climb over the decades before O'Shea came on board). And with Ireland's Head of Technical Direction, Stephen Aboud, brought on to run the youth programs, I'd say Italy's rugby future isn't as grim as many think.  

 

With some rugby pundits suggesting an expansion to the Six Nations, I heard that Germany are gaining interest with the pundits while Georgia need to work hard after their weak performances recently, as some of you have already pointed out. Germany, huh? Well, after their shock win against Romania on February 11th the 22nd-placed team in the world rankings, they may well be a team with interesting potential. But despite Georgia's recent slip ups, the Lelos are still the first choice along with Romania because of both teams' European Nations Cup successes and their participation in the Rugby World Cup events.

 

8 hours ago, RenegadeFurther said:

The six nations is the best attended sporting event in the world. It has higher attendance than even the NFL or the football world cup.

 

Yes, indeed. But don't forget the statistical context. There are just fifteen games in the Six Nations tournament as opposed to 62 matches in the 2014 FIFA World Cup finals and 162 games in the Major League Baseball, making the MLB the world's top-ranked attended tournament on an aggregate level with 74 million people throughout the 2016 season. It's notable to point out that the Six Nations does have an advantage over the Southern Hemisphere's more colorful Super Rugby tournament because of Europe's population. An average of 72,000 people showed up at Six Nations games last year compared to 19,200 for Super Rugby games - but the combined population of Argentina, Australia, South Africa, and New Zealand is only 118 million, while the combined population of the Six Nations countries is almost 200 million. With the Sunwolves from Tokyo, Japan, joining recently this pushes the Super Rugby population up to 245 million - and the popularity of the game in Japan has been increasing solidly.

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5 minutes ago, GoodBob said:

 

You have to follow the latest in the Azzurri rugby match results to see a much better picture. Since hiring Harlequin coach Conor O'Shea last March, Italy have had some significant wins. They beat Argentina, the United States, Canada, and most notably, South Africa - all this within O'Shea's first twelve months. That's putting Italy in the right direction (albeit a long slow climb over the decades before O'Shea came on board). And with Ireland's Head of Technical Direction, Stephen Aboud, brought on to run the youth programs, I'd say Italy's rugby future isn't as grim as many think.  

 

Welcome to the rugby forum, even though I am surprised to see you discuss something else other than Trump.

 

Italy beat the worst South African side in living memory and also lost to Tonga. There club sides get hammered every week.

 

The match was truly awful, sure they played by the rules, but it was a farce. 

 

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