Rentenversicherung refund question

23 posts in this topic

I lived and worked in Germany for an year, and then left permanently. I have now lived in North America for more than 2 years.

While I worked in Germany, a monthly rentenversicherung amount was deducted from my paycheck automatically. I'd like to get my contributions back. So I went to Deutsche Versicherung website, and it says:

 

Compulsory and voluntary contributions will be repaid to half of the original amount, top-up insurance contributions will be repaid in full. 

 

The website I went to is:

http://www.deutsche-rentenversicherung.de/Allgemein/en/Navigation/03_leistungen/03_beitragserstattung/beitragserstattung_node.html

 

So looks like I am eligible;e to apply for a refund. But I was surprised by the statement above. Does this mean that I'll only be refunded half of what I paid in total in that year? If so, what's the reason behind not returning the full amount? And will I still get a pension later corresponding to that half amount that the government keeps?

 

Thanks for the help

 

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, drifterwayfarer said:

Does this mean that I'll only be refunded half of what I paid in total in that year?

 

I find the explanation poorly worded. You will receive your (employee) contributions and the DRV will keep your employer's contributions. 

 

38 minutes ago, drifterwayfarer said:

If so, what's the reason behind not returning the full amount?

 

You only recieve what you paid into the system. The amount that your employer paid stays in the system. If employers were refunded their contributions there would be too strong of an incentive to only hire workers who are only temporarily in Germany. Considering that the employer contributions are also 10% of gross, I can think of many ways that employers could abuse the system.  

 

38 minutes ago, drifterwayfarer said:

And will I still get a pension later corresponding to that half amount that the government keeps?

 

 

No. 

5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks engelchen for the clarification.

I wonder what's better - keep all the money with them and get a pension in the future, or just get my contributions refunded now and forfeit employer's contributions? May be there is no simple answer to this, it all depends on one's circumstances etc...but I wonder if people have done an analysis on this. This must be a very common subject...

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, drifterwayfarer said:

Thanks engelchen for the clarification.

I wonder what's better - keep all the money with them and get a pension in the future, or just get my contributions refunded now and forfeit employer's contributions? 

 

Have a look at your last Renteninformation or order one from DRV, then you know what Rente you can expect (nearly nothing for only one year of contributions) and then decide yourself. 

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, drifterwayfarer said:

get a pension in the future

 

How? As far as I know, it is possible to get a German pension after paying contributions for 60 months. This varies, in Austria, for example, it is 15 years. 

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, LenkaG said:

 

How? As far as I know, it is possible to get a German pension after paying contributions for 60 months. This varies, in Austria, for example, it is 15 years. 

 

Good point! I completely forgot that. http://www.deutsche-rentenversicherung.de/Allgemein/de/Inhalt/Muttertexte/04_leistungen/01_rente/mindestversicherungszeit_stand_august_2014.html?cms_submit=Los&cms_resultsPerPage=5

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, drifterwayfarer said:

I wonder what's better - keep all the money with them and get a pension in the future, or just get my contributions refunded now and forfeit employer's contributions? May be there is no simple answer to this, it all depends on one's circumstances etc...but I wonder if people have done an analysis on this. This must be a very common subject...

 

Canada has a Social Security Agreement with Germany and the months you've contributed in Canada will be taken into account when assessing the 60 months needed to vest in Germany. Under the current rules, you'd should be eligible for a German pension,  however, I don't know which option is better.

 

Do you have any plans to return to Germany? 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No plans to return to Germany...

 

Quote

Have a look at your last Renteninformation or order one from DRV, then you know what Rente you can expect (nearly nothing for only one year of contributions) and then decide yourself. 

 

I am a little confused by someonesdaughter's comment above. I paid several hundred euros a month for Rentenvericherung (automatic deduction from my paycheck). So that's several thousand euros for an year I worked, and these were just my contributions, not my employer's. Should I not get all that back? 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also, how do I order Renteninformation from DRV, as suggested by someonesdaughter? A link to the site or form would be helpful. My 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

6 hours ago, drifterwayfarer said:

I paid several hundred euros a month for Rentenvericherung (automatic deduction from my paycheck). So that's several thousand euros for an year I worked, and these were just my contributions, not my employer's. Should I not get all that back? 

 

On 14.1.2017, 04:32:11, engelchen said:

You will receive your (employee) contributions and the DRV will keep your employer's contributions.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm also trying to get a refund of my pension contributions, and it's been surprisingly complex.  Glad to find this thread!

 

Drifterwayfarer, from what I've learned, there are different rules for over vs. under 60 months.  I haven't clicked on the links available above, but it sounds like you probably have the information needed for that part.

 

I have my own follow-up question for the community.  I contributed for >60 months and have now been out of Germany (and back home in the US) for over two years, which is the required waiting period.  Does anyone know whether Deutsche Rentenversicherung contributions (what was deducted from my paycheck all those years) was pre- or post-tax?  I'm having a surprising amount of trouble finding this out for sure.  It seems like this is an important factor in determining whether I'll have to pay US taxes on it when my refund arrives.

 

Asked another way: have any of y'all (US residents) done this successfully, and did you have to pay US taxes on it?

 

 

Thanks so much, everyone!

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 07/02/2017, 20:08:09, AmiMannheim said:

I'm also trying to get a refund of my pension contributions, and it's been surprisingly complex.  Glad to find this thread!

 

Drifterwayfarer, from what I've learned, there are different rules for over vs. under 60 months.  I haven't clicked on the links available above, but it sounds like you probably have the information needed for that part.

 

I have my own follow-up question for the community.  I contributed for >60 months and have now been out of Germany (and back home in the US) for over two years, which is the required waiting period.  Does anyone know whether Deutsche Rentenversicherung contributions (what was deducted from my paycheck all those years) was pre- or post-tax?  I'm having a surprising amount of trouble finding this out for sure.  It seems like this is an important factor in determining whether I'll have to pay US taxes on it when my refund arrives.

 

Asked another way: have any of y'all (US residents) done this successfully, and did you have to pay US taxes on it?

 

 

Thanks so much, everyone!

 

 

if you have paid into the German public pension for >60 months, as you say above, you'll have no claim to get money paid out anymore. However, you do have now a right to draw a monthly pension once you reach the legal pension right.  In addition, Germany and USA have a bilateral social security agreement and AFAIK, not even with less than 60 months you would have been entitled for a payout, because the USA is one of the "Abkommensstaaten".

 

Cheerio

 

I am a professional independent insurance broker, financial adviser, and authorised advertiser. Contact me.
2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wrote a letter to DRV asking them for a summary/details of my contributions and my employer's contributions. They wrote me a long letter back (of course in German) with several forms - V0100 and V0410. I put the letter through Google translator and got a decent understanding of what it said. I need some further clarification of what this paragraph means, even though Google says that they need my birth certificate in original or a "certified" copy. Can someone help confirm this?

 

Schon jetzt bitten wir um Übersendung eines Geburtsnachweises. Geburtsurkunde o. Ä. im Original oder als bestätigte Kopie - eine amtliche Beglaubigung ist nicht erforderlich. 

 

Eine Übersendung eines Geburtsnachweises ist nicht notwendig, wenn Sie eine Bestätigung Ihrer Personenstandsdaten im Antragsformular auf Kontenklärung anhand des Personalausweises oder des Reisepasses von der antragaufnehmenden Stelle - z. B. Auskunfts - und Beratungsstellen der Deutschen Rentenversicherung, andere Sozialleistungsträger, Versicherungsämter - vorhehmen lassen.

 

Google Translate says:

 

We are already asking for the transmission of a birth certificate. Birth certificate or similar. In the original or as a certified copy - an official certification is not required.

 

A transfer of a birth certificate is not necessary if you have a confirmation of your personal status data in the application form on account statement using the ID card or the passport from the application - taking agency - eg information and advice centers of the German pension insurance, other social services providers, insurance authorities.

 

What I am not clear is this - if I decide to send them a copy of my Birth certificate (which is in English), will they understand it? And what kind of certified copy do they need? Can I take a copy to a public notary and have him/her notarize it?

 

Thanks

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also, filling out form V0100, one of the fields is:

 

Zuzug aus dem Ausland?

  • Nein
  • Ja, am Tag/Monat/Jahr

aus Ort, Gebiet, Staat

nach Ort, Bundesland

 

Not sure what this means...

 

would appreciate your help

Thanks

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, drifterwayfarer said:

Also, filling out form V0100, one of the fields is:

 

Zuzug aus dem Ausland?

  • Nein
  • Ja, am Tag/Monat/Jahr

aus Ort, Gebiet, Staat

nach Ort, Bundesland

 

Not sure what this means...

 

would appreciate your help

Thanks

Translation:

 

Did you move here from abroad?

  • No
  • Yes, on day/month/year

From city, area, country

To city, Bundesland (German state)

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, drifterwayfarer said:

What I am not clear is this - if I decide to send them a copy of my Birth certificate (which is in English), will they understand it? And what kind of certified copy do they need? Can I take a copy to a public notary and have him/her notarize it?

Yes, a notary could certify it. Maybe your municipality will also do it. However, you could also go to your local Rentenberatungsstelle and have it certified by them (probably for free). They will also able to answer your remaining questions.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, jeba said:

Yes, a notary could certify it. Maybe your municipality will also do it. However, you could also go to your local Rentenberatungsstelle and have it certified by them (probably for free). They will also able to answer your remaining questions.

jeba - I live in USA, so I can only got to a local notary, I am assuming that'll be fine?

 

techgirl - thanks for providing a better translation

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, drifterwayfarer said:

jeba - I live in USA, so I can only got to a local notary, I am assuming that'll be fine?

I didn´t know there was a Fulda in the US, too;)

In that case I´m not sure. It´s unlikely but they might want an apostille on top of that. I´d send them an email and ask. Maybe you could also go to the next German consulate or embassy?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am filling out a form V0100 Antrag auf Kontenklarung, which DRV sent me after I wrote them a letter asking for an account summary. I believe when I complete and return this form, they'll send me my account status/summary?

 

Also, on the last page of the form, there is a section 11, and I am not sure what they need filled out there. I have attached a picture of this section. 

 

Any help would be appreciated.

 

 

IMG_0104.JPG

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now