Brexit: The fallout

18,333 posts in this topic

4 minutes ago, murphaph said:

It's not about taxes or anything like that. It's about food standards. The EU as a whole including us living here a thousand km from the Irish border have a right to expect that the external borders of the single market be protected. Those microstates accept the same food standards of the single market. The UK has rejected any proposal to follow these rules and the UK has several deep sea ports where non-conforming foodstuffs can easily be imported from third countries and end up in the single market through NI.

 

 

 

 

I know all of that and agree, the UK should follow the agreement it has signed all the way.

 

But if this agreement falls, the consequences could be grave, including to armed struggle, which nobody wants.

 

Thats why I say, its maybe better to allow very small amounts of UK products into to EU, that does not conform to EU standards. Because the amounts would be so small that the impact on the rest of the EU would be irreverent.

 

Sure I do not like, I do not want to east GM food fed to animals and then I eat it, thats why we have high standards in the EU, but if both sides do not come to an agreement, the consequences could be grave, which I want even less, for the cost of a couple thousand sausages, which would not go far in an EU community of 500 Million.

 

But you are of course correct, technically the agreement has to be respected in every way at the end.

 

 

 

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32 minutes ago, yesterday said:

but if both sides do not come to an agreement

 

Both sides did come to an agreement, and one side has pretty much said they signed the agreement because they didn't expect the other side would want it honoured to the letter.

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1 hour ago, yesterday said:

 

 

I know all of that and agree, the UK should follow the agreement it has signed all the way.

 

But if this agreement falls, the consequences could be grave, including to armed struggle, which nobody wants.

 

Thats why I say, its maybe better to allow very small amounts of UK products into to EU, that does not conform to EU standards. Because the amounts would be so small that the impact on the rest of the EU would be irreverent.

 

Sure I do not like, I do not want to east GM food fed to animals and then I eat it, thats why we have high standards in the EU, but if both sides do not come to an agreement, the consequences could be grave, which I want even less, for the cost of a couple thousand sausages, which would not go far in an EU community of 500 Million.

 

But you are of course correct, technically the agreement has to be respected in every way at the end.

 

 

 

Sounds like the kind of plan Boris and Co would go for. 

 

Agree and sign up to later try to change things to how they want by not getting that being the worse option or carrying the worse consequences. 

 

UK government are basically those people at work who never load the dishwasher even though they agreed to and know someone will do it as they won't want the kitchen top to be clogged up with dishes. 

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13 hours ago, murphaph said:

RTE main headline this morning:

"Joe Biden to express his concerns over Northern Ireland Protocol"

 

BBC main headline this morning:

"Biden warns Putin as he opens foreign trip in UK"

 

https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0609/1227038-biden-us-europe/

 

The US government has, according to the Times gone much further than allies normally go. The US has formally reprimanded the UK over their handling of the NI protocol.

I saw a funny comment somewhere today about what Biden and Johnson have in common.

Both are Catholics.

" Biden is a practising Catholic and Johnson is in need of practice."

 

Wasn't it Blair and Clinton who used the same toothpaste way back then?😂

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5 hours ago, yesterday said:

I never wanted to leave the EU in the first place, but it has happened...

 

The border in the Irish sea is probably the best of all the worst solutions to the problem, if it gets dropped, then this will cause a lot of trouble and therefore I hope both sides will work hard to resolve the problems.

 

I know the UK signed the deal, and is not trying not to implement parts of it ie checking customs on NI soil.

 

But if the EU does not allow the UK to change minor parts of the agreement, it could lead to a breakdown of the agreement.

 

I think maybe as a compromise, the UK should be allowed to export small quantities of products without additional checks, in order to preserve the agreement.

 

NI is a small econmany, so its not going to make much difference to ROI or the EU if small quantities are allowed to be exported to the EU market without customs.regulations.

 

I am not sure, but Monico, San Marino and the Vatican, are independent countries ( not part of the EU ) but are allowed to trade with the rest of the EU, because they are small and do not have enough trade to make it worth while to check things.

 

 

 

Its the thin end of the wedge principle.  If you start making one little exception for sausages, tomorrow it will be for something else.  I'm right with the EU over this.  Why did Johnson and his overpromoted sidekick Frost sign the NI protocol . less than 6 months ago, if either they didn't read and understand it, or deliberately fudged it hoping nobody would notice?  If the British Government can't be trusted on this part of the Brexit Agreement, what can they be trusted on? If the EU back down, smugglers will take full advantage. Why should the EU deliberately allow the Internal Market, perhaps their greatest achievement, to be undermined  by Johnson's dodgy dealings? 

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1 hour ago, alexunterwegs said:

Why did Johnson and his overpromoted sidekick Frost sign the NI protocol . less than 6 months ago, if either they didn't read and understand it, or deliberately fudged it hoping nobody would notice? 

Many reasons,among them is that they signed a deal and can say that.They knew when it came down to it that they would ignore parts of it but would blame it on the EU which is blatantly a lie but their followers would believe it and that´s all that matters to them.They don´t give a fuck if the UK goes to hell in a handcart as long as they can blame someone else for it and be believed.

All the time they have the lowest common denominators as their followers they´ll be alright.

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13 hours ago, Keleth said:

Many reasons,among them is that they signed a deal and can say that.They knew when it came down to it that they would ignore parts of it but would blame it on the EU which is blatantly a lie but their followers would believe it and that´s all that matters to them.They don´t give a fuck if the UK goes to hell in a handcart as long as they can blame someone else for it and be believed.

All the time they have the lowest common denominators as their followers they´ll be alright.

 

 

@Keleth has this spot-on as far as I am concerned.

 

There were a lot of questions asked in Parliament regarding the movement of goods between Great Britain and Northern Ireland based on the Northern Ireland Protocol, and regardless of what was in the protocol Boris Johnson would always insist that there would be no restrictions and all goods could flow. 

 

Ultimately, despite being the "Conservative and Unionist Party", a large number of GB-based leave-voters and Tory voters would accept the loss of Northern Ireland from the Union in exchange for Brexit (as far as polls on this are concerned)  and NI itself does not have Tory MPs representing it so it's not going to cost them seats. But also, the loss of NI would forever give Brexiteers something to bash the EU about and stoke up anti-EU rhetoric with.

 

To those who view the GFA as a stepping stone to a united Ireland (case in point, Peter Hitchens has on several occasions said the GFA guarantees a united Ireland at some point in the future) it could even be argued that having a Brexit that begins the breakup process now is the pragmatic approach.

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The deranged rantings of a jilted lover in the Telegraph:

 

This is also from today's Telegraph. It's an opinion piece written by Nile Gardiner, Director of the Margaret Thatcher Center for Freedom - part of the Heritage Foundation in Washington.

To put it very mildly, Mr Gardiner seems quite unimpressed by President Biden. Interestingly, it turns out that Biden is an Irish Nationalist and an IRA supporter.


Headline:
Joe Biden should keep his sneering anti-British, anti-Brexit views to himself

Article:
The revelation that the Biden administration issued a “demarche” or diplomatic dressing down to the British government last week over its handling of the Northern Ireland border should cause outrage in Britain. This is the kind of treatment that is normally dished out to enemies of the United States, such as Russia, and hardly ever issued against a close ally.
As both The Telegraph and The Times have reported, Biden’s most senior diplomat in London delivered a firm rebuke on June 3 on behalf of the president to Brexit minister Lord Frost declaring that Britain’s stance on the Northern Ireland Protocol was jeopardising the future of the Northern Ireland peace process. To make matters even worse, Yael Lempert, Washington’s chargé d'affaires in London, issued a thinly veiled warning, linking the prospect of a US/UK free trade deal with White House demands for the UK to follow the European Union’s directives on agricultural standards.

In many respects, this is Joe Biden's "back of the queue" moment. Barack Obama's now infamous anti-Brexit intervention didn't go down well back in 2016, and threats like this will always backfire with the British people, who don't appreciate being lectured to by US presidents, not least one who displays his anti-British sentiments on his sleeve.

Unlike Obama, however, who was encouraged to intervene ahead of the Brexit referendum by then Prime Minister David Cameron, Biden didn’t act at the prodding of Downing Street. Biden’s Northern Ireland warning was a political cruise missile strike aimed directly at Boris Johnson and his Conservative government, with the intention of forcing a change in British policy. As a staunch Irish nationalist, Biden has frequently been critical of Great Britain over Northern Ireland, and now that he is president sees an opportunity to take it to task.

There is no love lost between Biden’s team, many of whom served in the Obama administration, and Boris Johnson. Some of Biden’s extremely sensitive aides are still unhappy with the former Mayor of London for his sharp criticism of Barack Obama over the removal of the Winston Churchill bust from the Oval Office back in 2009. They also intensely dislike Brexit and Johnson’s formerly close partnership with the Trump presidency. In addition, they have been angered by the strong stance of the British government in the culture wars, with its firm rejection of the kind of “woke” liberal agenda that is now central to the thinking of the Biden operation. Indeed, on many issues, the US and British governments are worlds apart, and Johnson has been forced to work with the most Left-wing US presidency in American history.

The arrogance of the Biden administration ahead of the G7 meeting in Cornwall has been nothing short of breathtaking. This is no way to treat America's closest friend and ally. The British people didn't vote for Joe Biden and the Democrats. They voted for Brexit and Boris Johnson's Conservatives. They voted to leave the EU and take back control of Britain's destiny. They don't need to be lectured by a US president who as a senator adopted a sympathetic stance towards the Irish Republican Army, and opposed the extradition of Irish terror suspects to face trial in the United Kingdom.

Biden’s predecessor, Donald Trump, was outspoken in his criticism of then prime minister Theresa May for what he saw as her weak handling of the Brexit negotiations. But he never made threats against Britain and always championed a free trade deal with the United Kingdom. Trump respected the democratic will of the British people to leave the European Union, and his instincts were profoundly pro-British and extremely supportive of the Special Relationship. Trump loathed the EU, and believed that the British people would be far better off completely freed of the shackles of the European Union.

Biden takes a very different approach to Trump when it comes to Europe and Brexit. He is a Eurofederalist at heart, who as vice president under Obama remarked in a speech before the European Parliament in 2010 that Brussels had a legitimate claim to be the “capital of the free world”. Biden has paid lip service in the past to the importance of the partnership with Britain, but he views the transatlantic alliance largely through the lens of the US/EU relationship, attaching great value to the Paris-Berlin-Brussels axis that has ruled continental Europe for the last few decades.

There should be a furious response in London to the Biden administration’s demands of the British government. President Biden needs to mind his own business. It is not his place to lecture the British Prime Minister and British officials about Northern Ireland and Brexit. Joe Biden should keep his sneering anti-British and anti-Brexit views to himself. At the G7 this week, Boris Johnson must stand up to Biden, and remind him that he, and not the US president, represents the democratic will of the British people.

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These right wing politicians and journos have this romantic view of the UK-US relationship, based on holding the same conservative views on economic freedom underpinned by nationalism. But for the US its more pragamatic. Its how much use can the UK be for helping US business interests and geo-political strategy.

The Daily Telegraph can complain about Biden and others who upset their worldview, but that won't change how the Americans think.  If Biden concludes a Trade Deal with the UK, you can be certain that the interests of US agri-businesses and their reduced hygene standards will be protected.  Similarly, the interests of US pharma concerns will be of greater importance than protecting the integrity of the NHS.  In that sense, there won't be much difference between what Biden or Trump wanted.

On Brexit, Biden probably thinks that it weakens the geo-political position of Europe in relation to Russia and China and so he won't see the need to make any special concessions to help it.  That's reinforced by Biden's own special interest in protecting the Good Friday Agreement and so he won't be impressed by Johnson faffing around with the terms of the NI Protocol.   

 

Clearly a large plank of the Brexit campaign was based on the hope that the US would neatly pick up the shortfall from trade with Europe. The Telegraph and their Brexiteer pals can stamp their feet about Biden, but thats the reality of where their political manoeuvrings have got us.   

  

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Don't you just love it when the Torygraph and the Tory Beano (Express) get pissed of at the truth being told, contrary to their rants :lol:

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As British people die in their thousands I got stranded in Bansin in December 2020.

Bumbling Boris and his Conservative Cronies have managed to kill over 150,000 British civilians which is more than were killed by the Germans in the Blitz.

 

Immediately I got out of quarantine I applied for German residency but was not passed. In fact that was because I was made a German Citizen under Grund 116.

So now I have to navigate German politics as well as English.

 

IMG-20210611-WA0002.jpg

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Brexit: Boris Johnson repeats threat to suspend Northern Ireland Protocol amid sausage trade row

 

Brexit: Boris Johnson repeats threat to suspend Northern Ireland Protocol amid sausage trade row | Politics News | Sky News

 

Looks like Boris is still arising around, we all know he says one thing, just before he does the other, remember "die in a Ditch"

 

Just hope he does not push that nuclear button

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I am hoping someone can answer my question concerning Brexit and Dual citizenship. The Landradsamt is giving me another chance to pass the B1 exam and apply for Dual citizenship. They say it's because I applied in 2020. 

they are adamant about what they say is correct. Is this possible?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, shannon said:

I am hoping someone can answer my question concerning Brexit and Dual citizenship. The Landradsamt is giving me another chance to pass the B1 exam and apply for Dual citizenship. They say it's because I applied in 2020. 

they are adamant about what they say is correct. Is this possible?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why look a gift horse in the mouth even if they're wrong? It's them that decide so just play along and thank your lucky stars and make sure you pass your B1 test ;-)

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11 hours ago, shannon said:

They say it's because I applied in 2020. 

they are adamant about what they say is correct. Is this possible?

 

Yes. Do it, take it.

 

Your paperwork had to be in, and theoretically the whole thing should, if I remember rightly, have been erledigt, but I know someone else who failed to get his papers in before the Amt shut for Christmas, and he is now a dual citizen, and another family whose stuff went in in 2018, and now have their AufenthaltGB thing, and are still waiting on a result for the citizenship quest. There is a lot of local interpretation of the rules, and your situation is completely plausible.

 

Which bit of the B1 was your downfall? Deutsche Welle has lots of free material.

If you have the cash for courses/tutors then I would make this priority one after rent and beans-on-toast, and put everything into it.

Good luck.

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Absolutely. This is like Willy Wonka's golden ticket without having to buy all the chocolate. B1 really isn't that difficult with a small bit of effort. If you fail then do it again. The ABH doesn't need to know of any failures either ;-)

 

Don't delay. A change of personnel could see a different interpretation of the rules. Before the deadline some people assumed not much would change and decided not to apply for citizenship. Some people have found out that this was a mistake. You're getting a second bite at the cherry.

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