Brexit: The fallout

17,367 posts in this topic

2 hours ago, john_b said:

I've posted previously on this thread how Brexit has effectively decimated the UK live events industry, worth some £70 billion. This means that a huge swathe of British musicians from classical orchestras to bands and individual musicians will simply be unable to afford the financial hit that accompanies the ending of FOM. 

 

Read this letter from a UK events/transportation company that spells out what this all means to their sector

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/15oDZvBYkrAMHijp6AsyQu_BBGTdLYzuD/view?fbclid=IwAR0c_O-Pl7zLLEa51Ab4ath194gxepyWjibxFqhpI4FxWLNYP3036vi4abw

 

The EU offered to make this simple (basically keeping the same rules as much as possible) for live acts making it easy for UK acts to perform in the EU and vice versa. But the vice-versa bit was the stumbling block for the UK government so they turned down the EU offer. 

 

Before the usual suspects pipe up with "But The Who and the Beatles toured Europe in the 60's" check out this post on by Fish formerly of Marillion about the realities of the situation.

 

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=10157827728953587&id=54830663586

 

So well done Brexit voters, this time a sector employing many people and worth around 4 times the size of the UK fishing industry. Those of us living in Germany are unlikely to see some of our favourite British acts unless other than on a visit the UK.

 

But it's all just a huge joke, isn't it?   🤡 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Interesting link from the guy describing his situation.   But to be fair, touring is still possible, non-EU small bands tour the EU all the time.  What is changed is that now you have to adapt to the new rules.   You can't travel with all your crew like you used to,  just the band members and that's it, maybe your sound guy if you can afford it.   You do not travel with all your gear, just guitars and drum cymbals and that's it.     You enter Europe and hire a local bus/van and local crew and hit the road.     And you are at the mercy of the venue sound guy and the venue's backline.  

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, Krieg said:

 

 

Interesting link from the guy describing his situation.   But to be fair, touring is still possible, non-EU small bands tour the EU all the time.  What is changed is that now you have to adapt to the new rules.   You can't travel with all your crew like you used to,  just the band members and that's it, maybe your sound guy if you can afford it.   You do not travel with all your gear, just guitars and drum cymbals and that's it.     You enter Europe and hire a local bus/van and local crew and hit the road.     And you are at the mercy of the venue sound guy and the venue's backline.  

 

 

A friend's band used to go on a mini tour of Europe every other year to play various rock and roll bars, events and clubs.

I know they have played in Hamburg and they try to play the Roadrunners Rock & Motor Club just off  Saarbrücker St.

 

They are not happy about the extra work involved. They couldn't travel now anyway s they are waiting to see what extra is involved when they can. 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, john_b said:

I've posted previously on this thread how Brexit has effectively decimated the UK live events industry, worth some £70 billion. This means that a huge swathe of British musicians from classical orchestras to bands and individual musicians will simply be unable to afford the financial hit that accompanies the ending of FOM. 

 

Read this letter from a UK events/transportation company that spells out what this all means to their sector

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/15oDZvBYkrAMHijp6AsyQu_BBGTdLYzuD/view?fbclid=IwAR0c_O-Pl7zLLEa51Ab4ath194gxepyWjibxFqhpI4FxWLNYP3036vi4abw

 

The EU offered to make this simple (basically keeping the same rules as much as possible) for live acts making it easy for UK acts to perform in the EU and vice versa. But the vice-versa bit was the stumbling block for the UK government so they turned down the EU offer. 

 

Before the usual suspects pipe up with "But The Who and the Beatles toured Europe in the 60's" check out this post on by Fish formerly of Marillion about the realities of the situation.

 

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=10157827728953587&id=54830663586

 

So well done Brexit voters, this time a sector employing many people and worth around 4 times the size of the UK fishing industry. Those of us living in Germany are unlikely to see some of our favourite British acts unless other than on a visit the UK.

 

But it's all just a huge joke, isn't it?   🤡 

 

I appreciate that where there's a will, there's usually a way, and that we can send a man to the moon,  but as you go through life, you want things to get easier, not more complicated.  The difficulties now being felt by live UK musicians is a typical example of how Brexit makes things more complicated.  The idiots who say, ah but back in the 1960's I used to get around Europe without problems, don't seem to appreciate that time moves on, and the EU and Schengen rules have changed a helluvalot. We are not living in the 1960s. 

 

Although it will hit UK musicians much harder, it also applies the other way round too. I have seen the Dutch band Focus and the Jan Akkerman band live countless times back in the UK. Presumably thats going to be harder now.  So audiences in across Europe and the UK lose out on cross cultural experiences. With Brexit, everyones a loser.  

 

I see one of the EU's greatest achievements as taking down barriers to movement, taking away and simplifying rules. The problems now faced by the music industry is just the thin end of the wedge.  Alot of UK businesses have just given up trying to export to the EU. I believe some have been told  (anecdotal I know) by Government officials to, switch their trade to other markets. If that's not a damning enditement of Brexit, I don't know what is.  


 

 

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, alexunterwegs said:

So audiences in across Europe and the UK lose out on cross cultural experiences.

 

Won't the Brexiters say that there is no need for this foreign stuff as there is plenty of good music etc. within the UK?

Sort of similar about the fish...

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was thinking earlier (happens sometimes) about the whole project fear thing, why were some people unable to to think through what could happen, why were they unable to think through, logically, what the changes to the rules and regulations brexit would bring, would affect them.

 

Came to me as I was reading through what BJ others have said about woke culture etc, why they want more conservative views in universities etc. I think it comes down to being able to think hypothetically.

The ability to think through the what if's, what will happen if this happens, how would you feel if you were in that position.

 

If you look at the age vs voting or educations vs voting information out there, younger and people who have gone through higher or further education or people in jobs were thinking hypothetically is important, didn't label concerns as project fear, the looked and evaluated them.

Being able to think hypothetically is something that has grown over time. In modern employment it is important to be able to think around issues, problem, solutions, to see what may happen. At least in a more hypothetical sense.  In a sense that what you are thinking about doesn't have to be real, it doesn't have to be actually real yet.

You don't just see the concrete, you don't just see that real world.

 

For example, you ask a more concrete thinking person how they would feel having to flee from their country and go to another for safety. They may say 'that is never going to happen' as they cannot close their eyes and imagine being in that position, they cannot put themselves in the hypothetical situation. They are less likely to have a job or gone through a level of education that would either require that ability of would have thought how to think that way (born in to money so never had to bother or worked in a profession where it wasn't that important).

Maybe this is why brexit votes dismissed things as project fear, they could not follow through the consequences of the change brexit would bring, they could not map in their heads what such changes would bring and held to what the brexit campaign were telling them, we are important, we are one of the biggest economies in Europe, they need us more than we need them.  They stated a fact (big economy) and followed up with a basic consequence, unproven and it was not thought through,  we are more important, they need us more than we need them.
Where as people who have more experience with hypothetical thinking were more able to follow through the consequences of what was proposed and evaluate the what the changes could being.  
Which is why brexit supporting politicians would really like to reduce this kind of thinking, if you dangle a carrot and people can only see the carrot, they will never see around you to ask what the stick is for. If you can keep them concentrated, by word or lack of education, from looking further than you want them to, life gets easier.

 

The ability to think hypothetically is important, it allows us to work through things in an abstract way. People going through school today can think in abstract ways their grandparents cannot reach unless they bother to put quit a bit of effort in to catch up.
It's not a new thing, it's a trend that has been followed for awhile. I would also guess it is the reason Trump and brexit supporters tend to be same group here on TT, and before that, a similar split on the refugee threads. 

 

 

5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, HEM said:

 

Won't the Brexiters say that there is no need for this foreign stuff as there is plenty of good music etc. within the UK?

Sort of similar about the fish...

 

Sadly, that mindset is fairly typical.  Music, along with art, literature and architecture is just part of Europe's long and rich heritage of culture, which Britain has made a massive contribution towards. Putting up barriers to cultural exchange between countries is sad.  This is another result of Brexit which goes beyond the straight forward economic disbenefits. And Brexiteers try to claim they have nothing against Europe.   


 

 

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, alexunterwegs said:

And Brexiteers try to claim they have nothing against Europe.   

 


Whilst they giggle and smirk about the EU CoViD vaccine rollout. 
 

It is very clear that a lot of prominent Brexiteers certainly do have something against the Europe, regardless of claiming otherwise. 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, cb6dba said:

I was thinking earlier (happens sometimes) about the whole project fear thing, why were some people unable to to think through what could happen, why were they unable to think through, logically, what the changes to the rules and regulations brexit would bring, would affect them.

 

Although we can trawl the media and pick out cases of schadenfreude of people who voted for Brexit and now are facing problems as a result (Spanish expats, fishing etc), I would assume that most Brexit voters have felt no such regret. Probably never will.

My family members who voted for Brexit had very little skin in the game. They voted for mostly xenophobic reasons as far as I can tell. They thought that the areas they were living in were turning to shitholes due to eastern europeans moving in (they've always been shithole areas). There was also a bit of "why not?", they have no perceived connection to the EU, why not try going it alone.

They're just dock workers from nowheresville. Maybe the poles will leave, maybe they won't. They don't care about Spanish expats. The vaccination program seems to be going well, which is a Brexit benefit as far as they are concerned. Honestly, for most people on the ground, Brexit or not, life is going on as normal.

6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, murphaph said:

First use of water canon in 6 years in NI. Brexit related riots.

https://www.rte.ie/news/ulster/2021/0408/1208702-northern-ireland-violence/

The alternative, a hard land border, would have already seen bombings by republicans.

 

Brexit is incompatible with peace in Northern Ireland. Shame in anyone who still supports it.

 

Oh Lord, don't take us back to the 1970s. These riots might be heralding the beginning of international attacks again - as if we didn't already have enough of them!

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote
The comedian and TV presenter Patrick Kielty's father was murdered by terrorists in January 1988.
Here is an open letter to Boris Johnson from Patrick written on Twitter in September 2018. It has aged much better than any of Boris Johnson's lies:
Dear Boris Johnson
There is no ‘better Brexit’ when it comes to the Good Friday Agreement and Northern Ireland.
As you still seem bamboozled by all this Paddywackery here’s a few pointers for your next stab in the dark -
1. Northern Ireland is made up of a majority of Unionists (as in the Conservative and Unionist Party) and, believe it or not, a rather large minority of Nationalists (as in Irish Nationalists)
2. These Irish Nationalists don’t see themselves as British but rather inconveniently as Irish (who knew?)
3. For over 30 years we killed each other because of these differences which means Northern Ireland is nothing like Camden or Westminster.
4. The Good Friday Agreement ended that violence by the following devious magic -
Unionists were guaranteed that Northern Ireland would be part of the UK until the majority voted otherwise.
The Irish border was removed and the island linked so Nationalists could pretend they were already living in a United Ireland (yes, Tony Blair did slight of hand much better than you)
5. Some of these Nationalists then accepted being part of the UK as their day to day lives were essentially Irish.
6. This cunning plan was sold to us on the basis that we were all part of the EU therefore fixation on nationality was so last World War.
7. Implementing the Good Friday Agreement was torturous (think Brexit with actual bombs, not metaphorical suicide vests) but we finally made peace. Yet 20 years later NI remains a divided society.
8. Thanks to your glorious Brexit vision Northern Ireland will become more divided as some form of economic border checks will become part of daily lives.
9. If those checks take place between NI and Ireland, the Nationalists who were once happy being part of the UK will change their mind.
10. If they take place in the Irish Sea some Unionists will be livid. However they'll still support being part of the UK (the clue is in the Unionist bit)
11. Your Brexit lies have opened a Pandora’s box for Northern Ireland. It's one reason why the majority of people in NI voted to remain in the EU (almost as if they knew more about the fragile equilibrium of their politics than you)
12. Barely mentioned before Brexit, a border poll is now inevitable thanks to your monumental ignorance.
13. When that poll is eventually held the Nationalists who were once content being part of a Northern Ireland within the UK and EU will vote to leave the UK to feel as Irish and European as they did before Brexit.
14. The poll will be much closer thanks to your Brexit folly and could easily be lost by Unionists, breaking up the UK.
15. Any break up of the Union will be your fault (a tad inconvenient as a member of the Conservative and er, Unionist party)
16. The EU is not responsible for your blundering lack of foresight. Like most people in Northern Ireland they were happy with the status quo.
17. By the time the penny drops that you can’t preserve the Union you want without the one you don’t, it will be too late.
18. You will be remembered not as the Churchillian visionary you delude yourself to be but the ignoramus who triggered the break up of the UK.
19. If there’s any justice all this will come to pass when you're Prime Minister so you can finally swim in the constitutional sewage you've created (though we all know you’ll be in Nice with your trotters up)
20. Meantime, if you’re so concerned about keeping Northern Ireland totally aligned with the rest of the UK where’s your support for our same sex marriage and women’s right to choose? Your silence is deafening.

 

8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kielty's tweets have been all too sadly predictable. I'm certainly no Nostradamus and I was predicting the same on here after the referendum. It was obvious to most Irish. My contributions were rubbished of course but I offer 1 big fuck off water canon and a load of burnt out buses as evidence that Brexit isn't making the people of NI happy.

 

Those utter morons to think the delicate balance in NI wouldn't be upended by their crass idiocy.

6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

On ONE this evening at 9.00 p.m. Brexit film Chronik eines Abschieds with Benedict Cumberbach.

 

Benedict Cumberbatch als Spindoktor der Leave-Kampagne: der Film zum am 31. Januar vollzogenen Austritt der Briten aus der EU.

 

 

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now