Brexit: The fallout

17,622 posts in this topic

On 22/03/2021, 12:35:55, Mackle said:

 

I would presume that this is mostly because that's how large sections of the media are presenting it. You also have people like Nigel Farage, Michael Heaver and Mayour Tousi, putting an extreme spin on comments such as Angela Merkel's comments that she would not have the AV vaccine because it's not approved in Germany for her age group and riling up leavers. That is on top of the usual suspect MPs like Andrew Brigden, Mark Francois, John Redwood, Bill Cash, Iain Duncan Smith, etc appearing on TV talking about how the EU is either trying to punish the UK for Brexit or is acting out of jealous spite related to the UK vaccine rollout. 

 

There is also a wider narrative at play certainly in England of a "culture war", in which there are accusations of people in the civil service and institutions (including the BBC) of being rabid EU-loyalists. The BBC in particular is facing increasing public calls from Conservative MPs to be subscription-based or advertising revenue funded.

 

The referendum has turned the country in to a complete mess.

Well I'm seeing guys I know were remainers on British forums go ultra-nationalist. I think it will get a lot worse before it gets better. The Vaccine thing is really polarising and definitely driving remainers towards a more anti-EU stance. That will take years to overcome. The timing couldn't have been worse for anyone hoping for even a partial reversal of Brexit.

 

I am seeing people claim that the EU is wasting jabs rather than waiting the 12 weeks. One guy I know making these claims understands German. He could easily check the facts and see that the guidelines here for AZ were also changed to 12 weeks once the data supported it. Same in Ireland. They almost want to believe that even if they didn't support it, that leaving was in fact a good idea in hindsight.

 

 

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5 hours ago, murphaph said:

Well I'm seeing guys I know were remainers on British forums go ultra-nationalist. I think it will get a lot worse before it gets better. The Vaccine thing is really polarising and definitely driving remainers towards a more anti-EU stance. That will take years to overcome. The timing couldn't have been worse for anyone hoping for even a partial reversal of Brexit

 

Vaccines aside, the country is in a very bad place. A lot of the print and web media run stories which make out that the EU is a hostile entity trying to wage some kind of non-combat war on the UK, and then accuse the BBC, the schools and universities, the civil service, etc. as being part of it. They will see elected politicians on Twitter calling out the BBC accusing them of being anti-British and calling for them to be defunded. They will then watch the BBC or Channel 4 news, see things reported differently from the Mail, the Telegraph or the Sun, and after a while it's not surprising if some of them start to wonder if there is anything in the propaganda.

 

Lockdown is making some people spend more time on some of these news sites and YouTube channels.

 

I think you have gotten it spot-on about the timing being terrible; Boris Johnson seems to be continuing to pull away in the poll ratings, and the worse it becomes apparent that his deal is, the more the public and large sections of the media seem to galvanise around him. Scotland do have the opportunity to break away from this English madness though, as long as the Sturgeon and Salmond soap opera hasn't swayed too many away from the SNP.

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Although I could entirely see the EU's viewpoint for wanting to go down the export licence route for vaccines, I hope they hold back and it doesn't all get too heavy. You know how the British press would choose to interpret it, and that could set EU-UK relations back years. 

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12 minutes ago, alexunterwegs said:

Although I could entirely see the EU's viewpoint for wanting to go down the export licence route for vaccines, I hope they hold back and it doesn't all get too heavy. You know how the British press would choose to interpret it, and that could set EU-UK relations back years. 

 

If they did go down that route, would it change how people vote in a Scottish indy vote?

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7 hours ago, murphaph said:

They almost want to believe that even if they didn't support it, that leaving was in fact a good idea in hindsight.

It's a kind of Stockholm Syndrome. It's easier to cope with the awful situation you're in if you start believing that the people that want to do you harm are actually good people with good intentions and maybe everything isn't that bad after all.

 

I think an export ban is inevitable, but I hope they do it in a definsible way instead of explicitly singling out the UK. E.g. they could say vaccines can't be exported to countries that have vaccinated more than a third of the population in order to achieve a fairer distribution. When people start shouting you just ask them to explain why they believe their lives are more important, for which there isn't an answer.

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With regards to what I said earlier about MPs and print media going after the BBC, a few of them are running a story today about Boris Johnson in a 1922 committee meeting yesterday accusing the BBC of being biased and showing Brexit in a bad light, and "not giving the British people want they want".

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9395685/Brexit-showed-BBC-metropolitan-bias-Boris-Johnson-says.html

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1413929/bbc-news-boris-johnson-bbc-flag-row-naga-munchetty-charlie-stayt-bbc-licence-fee

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1413648/boris-johnson-bbc-license-fee-increase-brexit-netflix-margaret-thatcher-spt

 

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Can we rename the Brexit version of Stockholm syndrome, Sunderland syndrome

 

It is a kind of bank heist only perpetuated on an entire country!

 

Mackle I'm not sure if I mentioned it but some Tory MP was berating the BBC director general for not having enough union flags in their annual report!

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35 minutes ago, murphaph said:

Mackle I'm not sure if I mentioned it but some Tory MP was berating the BBC director general for not having enough union flags in their annual report!

 

I don't think you did, but I did see that story earlier.

 

This whole flag thing is ridiculous - conservative MPs appearing on breakfast TV by zoom are not taking part in some state function, therefore the flag does not need to be there. It served its purpose though, as by laughing at someone having a huge flag plonked beside them in their office, there are now people queuing up to decry the BBC for being anti-British. 

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Ah flags. Expect many tomorrow here in Greece- 200th anniversary of Greek independence from the Ottoman Empire. Nice one.

Rain expected, though, here on Crete.

And flag waving apart - the economy is shitty. 
Ah well, maybe tourists will come again one day.

They feed the 5,000 better than flags.

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On 15/03/2021, 17:18:18, Jonny said:

 

 

Here's  the flag story. Truly pathetic. Never heard of MP James Wild  till now, what a complete twat!. FWIW turns out there are no union flags in the Tory manifesto, his website etc et c

 

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/tory-mp-called-out-for-infantile-and-genuinely-worrying-flag-protest-259936/

 

Full marks to Hugo Rifkind for his comment “strong Gareth from The Office vibes" :lol:

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It's all a little bit sinister. The accusation of "not British enough" is implied and it's mostly failed, undemocratic states that make heavy use of the flag in peacetime.

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Oh. How horrid.

 

Some people in the UK are really struggling - and all that money is spent on this - and the end result looks so naff and imported. 

 

Ouch.

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Is it ok to ask question about Brexit here, or would that just all be dumb question like?

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I'm always a little bit suspicious of politicians that make a big deal of waving national flags, and even more so of political parties that put the name of their country in the party name. 

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Even worse are those countries who put the word "Democratic" in their name - because you can be certain that they are not.

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I've never really understood why a person will look at a flag and see something of themselves in it. It's a flag, it was designed to rally people to it, to get them to do things for it, to forget maybe their own interests and pursue the interests of someone else.

 

Here, stand next to this flag while those guys over there walk up and then you shoot at each other, do it for the flag, the enemy mustn't get the flag.

Look at this flag and ignore what we are doing, get behind the flag.

 

Some people fall for it hook, line and sinker. But that's the point, to go for the low hanging fruit, the fruit that is easily exploitable, will believe what you say, those that you can get to think they are in trouble, badly off, in danger.

People are coming for you and your stuff, better listen to us...

 

If a politician has to make noise about a flag, he hasn't got much else going for him... Because, look at the flag, ignore the rest.

 

 

 

 

 

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