Brexit: The fallout

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6 hours ago, murphaph said:

A chap posted on my favourite Irish forum that he hopes to Christ the UK doesn't do a USSR next door to us. What he meant was that as the USSR disintegrated (the UK could very easily do the same), the core (Russia/England) attempted to maintain a malignant control on its former "appendages" and indeed neighbours (Baltic states: Scotland, Poland: Ireland etc.). Russia was supposed to become a democracy but it is a failed state really, which no freedom of the press, a disillusioned electorate that can't seem to replace the right wing strongman with anybody else and this terrible need to interfere with its neighbours in continued attempts to destabilise them.

 

At the moment it's a caddish clown and a bunch of supporting Oxbridge toffs rather than a strongman, but I can understand where this guy is coming from - you just have to listen to the "Scotland WILL respect the 2014 once in a lifetime referendum" rhetoric that comes from around no.10

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https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/brexit-news/europe-news/brexit-languages-britain-7819232

 

Scary statistics from EU Commision survey indicating the UK bottom of the league by a country mile for 15 to 30 year olds ability to speak  2 or more languages. 

It indicates in the UK just 32% could, whilst in the next worst country, Hungary, 71% could. (I guess the stats date from before Brexit). 

Apparently a third of state schools in England allow pupils to opt out of languages by 14 and the number of students on university languages course has dropped by more than a third over 10 years. . 

I imagine Brexit is only going to reinforce this trend. The British will become even more mono-lingual.  Not good for doing business, but also not good for cultural awareness. In other words, more insular, as if that wasn't a problem already.   

 

 

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2 hours ago, alexunterwegs said:

Scary statistics from EU Commision survey indicating the UK bottom of the league by a country mile for 15 to 30 year olds ability to speak  2 or more languages. 

It indicates in the UK just 32% could...

One 3rd the population speak a 2nd language?  I'm amazed its that high - but possibly much of that number are due to those with immigrant background where English is the second language.

Also depends how you define "speak a second language".

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I remember way back being called fluent in German as I could order my own beer...

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I claim the first "knowledge level" in a foreign language is being able to avoid starvation in a restaurent.

This was the level I had when I started visiting Hamburg back in 1977.

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13 hours ago, Mackle said:

 

At the moment it's a caddish clown and a bunch of supporting Oxbridge toffs rather than a strongman, but I can understand where this guy is coming from - you just have to listen to the "Scotland WILL respect the 2014 once in a lifetime referendum" rhetoric that comes from around no.10

The latest draconian measures proposed by the tories

fascists.jpg.b2353c84c7f73ac3c36577e6915

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1 hour ago, cb6dba said:

I remember way back being called fluent in German as I could order my own beer...

You are half way fluent ( but only half way!) if you know enough German to get into trouble but not enough to get out of trouble!

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34 minutes ago, Wulfrun said:

The latest draconian measures proposed by the tories

fascists.jpg.b2353c84c7f73ac3c36577e6915

 

So much for BoJo the classical liberal!

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13 hours ago, Mackle said:

 

At the moment it's a caddish clown and a bunch of supporting Oxbridge toffs rather than a strongman, but I can understand where this guy is coming from - you just have to listen to the "Scotland WILL respect the 2014 once in a lifetime referendum" rhetoric that comes from around no.10

And look at who is waiting in the wings to replace Johnson, an authoritarian Patel perhaps? She's another one that doesn't much like the ECHR.

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Pritti... certainly doesn't describe that woman's heart. Home Secretaries usually talk a lot, but it's so easy for me to imagine her beating protestors with a baton, you just know she would enjoy that immensely

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14 signs the UK is becoming a modern fascist state

Quote
Fascism’s “defining characteristics”: nationalism and disregard for human rights

Che Scott-Heron Newton tweeted how she believed fascism was “presenting in modern Britain”. She noted four areas. One was “Powerful and Continuing Nationalism”. In this instance, she gave the example of police protecting a Winston Churchill statue

 

Heron’s second example was:

Disregard for human rights: people are more likely to approve of longer incarcerations of prisoners, look the other way

She gave the example of the current furore of the so-called ‘Police Bill’. But the degradation of UK human rights has been ongoing for a long time. Back in 2016, the UN accused successive Tory-led governments of “grave” and “systematic” violations of sick and disabled people’s human rights. With the UK’s potential withdrawal from the European Convention on Human Rights, things will only get worse.

 

Heron’s third point was:

Disrespect towards intellectuals & the arts

Tory attempts to clamp-down on universities ‘cancelling‘ far-right bigots from speaking forms part of this. Or, as The Canary‘s Maryam Jameela put it, the Tories attempt to ” quash dissent”. Then, you have the Tories’ attacks on “lefty lawyers” doing human rights work. Meanwhile, in recent years, they’ve also cut public arts funding by 35%.

 

Finally, Heron said:

Obsession with crime & punishment

The recent Policing, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill (the ‘Police Bill’) is a case in point. As Liberty said, it includes:

dangerous measures including restrictions on protest, new stop and search powers, a “Prevent-style” duty on knife crime, and a move to criminalise trespass.

Also, the Covert Human Intelligence Sources (Criminal Conduct) Bill allows intelligence services to break the law on UK soil.

So, Heron summed up some major indicators of fascism well. It was in-part based on historian Laurence Britt’s 2003 work on the signs of a fascist regime.

 

Picking apart his remaining ten points, how does the UK look?

 

There's more...

 

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1 hour ago, Wulfrun said:

 

It's quite fascinating to read that. Being from London, I initially think "no we are pretty liberal where I am from", but then London and the bigger cities are not exactly reflective of the country as a whole (London is after all a world city and both it and it's occupants are not popular with "middle England") plus if you look at Hungary you see that cities like Budapest are not pro-Orban but yet Orban still keeps getting voted in.

 

 

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54 minutes ago, Mackle said:

 

It's quite fascinating to read that. Being from London, I initially think "no we are pretty liberal where I am from", but then London and the bigger cities are not exactly reflective of the country as a whole (London is after all a world city and both it and it's occupants are not popular with "middle England") plus if you look at Hungary you see that cities like Budapest are not pro-Orban but yet Orban still keeps getting voted in.

 

 

I am from up north, not quite Scotland but getting there.

It's a mixed bag up there to be honest. Views are spread out among the age groups and even education groups.

 

I know 80 year-olds that think brexit is the dumbest thing ever and ones that voted for it (that is just my family). I have friends who are long term unemployed who fall on both sides, friend's with degrees doing the same etc.

It goes against the stats etc.

 

Basically I think it goes deeper, if you are a person who buys in to the speech that there re others out there getting what you are not, then you are most likely pro-brexit.

Looking at my friends/family etc, the pro-brexit among them were and are always the ones who talk about refugees getting hat local people don't, they were the ones talking about how single mother's get council houses, how london and the south gets all the support (which isn't really incorrect to be fair). They are the ones who can have their attention pointed at others, the ones who look sideways and down, instead of up.

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Captured? People actually voted for the gamblers and clowns, and passionately defend them!!

 

(Of course, Iain Duncan Smith would call them "Buccaneers")

 

 

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Read an article on RTE this morning and Irish diplomats are being quoted as saying British-Irish relations are about as bad as they were in the early 1980s :-(

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5 hours ago, yesterday said:

Looks like the shit deal the UK got could fall apart

 

I thought the deal was a good deal. The problem is it's a hard-Brexit deal, and that's what's shit.

 

What happens if the EU Parliament doesn't ratify it? They're allowing it to function as if it was ratified, but at some point they're going to have to tear that up and start imposing tariffs.

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3 minutes ago, Dembo said:

 

I thought the deal was a good deal. The problem is it's a hard-Brexit deal, and that's what's shit.

 

What happens if the EU Parliament doesn't ratify it? They're allowing it to function as if it was ratified, but at some point they're going to have to tear that up and start imposing tariffs.

 

It's a shot deal because the UK will about 4 % of trade in the next 10 years or so, according to the experts, if both sides get so passed off with each and we get a no deal then a further 2 % of trade will be lost.

 

And it could lead to a hard border between the UK and Ireland, which may lead to the troubles coming back

 

The only solution is for the UK to regain the eu, but that will not happen in the short term, to much pride to swallow for the current politicians.

 

I of course wish the UK much luck as it's my home country, but I do not have much confidence it's going to get a good deal out of America, India or Japan, if the UK gets a deal, I am not sure it will of set the loss of the EU market

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