Brexit: The fallout

17,382 posts in this topic

6 minutes ago, Wulfrun said:

Ironic, as Sunderland voted to leave...

How so?

It would seem to reinforce a pro brexit opinion or did you not read the article?

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2 hours ago, keith2011 said:

How so?

It would seem to reinforce a pro brexit opinion or did you not read the article?

I did and no it doesn`t.

Nissan are doing this because of the trade deal that Johnson did which is good for them but many people especially many rabid Brexiteers are not happy with.

If Brexit had happened how they wanted then Nissan would likely not have stayed.

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The rattles are leaving the sinking ship

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2021/jan/16/simon-rattle-applies-for-german-citizenship-brexit

 

Simon Rattle decries Brexit as he applies for German citizenship

Conductor laments impact on UK musicians’ careers and describes application as ‘absolute necessity’
The conductor Simon Rattle, who announced this week that he was cutting short his tenure at Britain’s leading orchestra to return to Germany,

has applied for German citizenship after Brexit.
The Liverpool-born musician lamented the barriers thrown up by Britain’s departure from the European Union to the careers of young musicians

who had grown used to performing freely to the continent’s music-hungry public.

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1 hour ago, Keleth said:

I did and no it doesn`t.

Nissan are doing this because of the trade deal that Johnson did which is good for them but many people especially many rabid Brexiteers are not happy with.

If Brexit had happened how they wanted then Nissan would likely not have stayed.

I really can't see why they would be unhappy that Nissan has decided to stay despite the UK (or at least part of it ;)) leaving the EU customs union. The FTA may not be anywhere as advantageous for the UK as promised by the leave campaign but none the less if it keeps major EU exporters like Nissan in place I don't understand why someone would regard that as negative with respect to brexit voters in Sunderland. It certainly would have been ironic given the big majority leave vote in Sunderland had Nissan decided to pack up and go somewhere else.

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12 minutes ago, keith2011 said:

I really can't see why they would be unhappy that Nissan has decided to stay despite the UK (or at least part of it ;)) leaving the EU customs union. The FTA may not be anywhere as advantageous for the UK as promised by the leave campaign but none the less if it keeps major EU exporters like Nissan in place I don't understand why someone would regard that as negative with respect to brexit voters in Sunderland. It certainly would have been ironic given the big majority leave vote in Sunderland had Nissan decided to pack up and go somewhere else.

I think we're supposed to celebrate because Nissan has decided to do what they would have done anyway had we stayed in the EU. 

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4 minutes ago, alexunterwegs said:

I think we're supposed to celebrate because Nissan has decided to do what they would have done anyway had we stayed in the EU. 

Any way this is sold as a win just highlights why it isn't.

We have not gained anything on what we had before, just on what we could have lost. If not losing something is a win, then you are playing the wrong game.

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6 minutes ago, alexunterwegs said:

I think we're supposed to celebrate because Nissan has decided to do what they would have done anyway had we stayed in the EU. 

Not celebrate, heaven forbid that anything not completely negative to the UK ever gets posted on this thread!

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16 minutes ago, AnswerToLife42 said:

The rattles are leaving the sinking ship

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2021/jan/16/simon-rattle-applies-for-german-citizenship-brexit

 

Simon Rattle decries Brexit as he applies for German citizenship

Conductor laments impact on UK musicians’ careers and describes application as ‘absolute necessity’
The conductor Simon Rattle, who announced this week that he was cutting short his tenure at Britain’s leading orchestra to return to Germany,

has applied for German citizenship after Brexit.
The Liverpool-born musician lamented the barriers thrown up by Britain’s departure from the European Union to the careers of young musicians

who had grown used to performing freely to the continent’s music-hungry public.

I wonder how he manages to suddenly up sticks and qualify for German citizenship. Surely being married to a Czech doesn't help him. Even if he has a flat in Berlin, he's been working in London , so he must have been able to convince the Auslanderbehorde that Berlin hs been his main home for approaching 8 years. 

 

Anyway good luck to him. Many others will not have been so fortunate in being able to make the switch in time. 

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If his wife and kids have been there the whole time then he has been resident and paying taxes here the whole time. Just working away. It is not so easy to leave the Finanzamt behind.

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10 minutes ago, keith2011 said:

Not celebrate, heaven forbid that anything not completely negative to the UK ever gets posted on this thread!

There's nothing to stop anyone posting any positives for the UK from Brexit on this thread, but we're not exactly holding our breath. 

What have we so far;  no tampon tax,  a nice coloured new passport (even if its stripped of previous rights) and a plentiful supply of fish. 

 

As for Nissan deciding not to do what they probably would have done, is just maintaining the status quo. Its not a benefit. 

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35 minutes ago, alexunterwegs said:

I wonder how he manages to suddenly up sticks and qualify for German citizenship. Surely being married to a Czech doesn't help him. Even if he has a flat in Berlin, he's been working in London , so he must have been able to convince the Auslanderbehorde that Berlin hs been his main home for approaching 8 years. 

 

Simon lived in Berlin for 16 years!

"Rattle said his decision to return to Germany, where he conducted the Berlin Philharmonic for 16 years, was taken so he could be close to his family in the German capital, but he made his frustration with Britain’s political direction clear.

“The fact that musicians and artists in general suddenly have to get visas for Europe is absolutely not the Brexit bonus we were talking about,” he said. “We will have to fight it.”

 

Why did so many "intelligent" Britons vote for Brexit and now complain about the consequences on their lifes?

Roger Daltree, The Who:

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2021/jan/20/brexiter-roger-daltrey-criticises-restrictions-for-musicians-touring-europ

"He clarified that he had not changed his position on Brexit. “I’m glad to be free of Brussels, not Europe. I would have preferred reform, which was asked for by us before the referendum and was turned down by the then president of the EU.” "

" Following publication of the letter, Daltrey, 76, said: “Every tour, individual actors and musicians should be treated as any other ‘goods’ at the point of entry to the EU with one set of paperwork. Switzerland has borders with five EU countries and trade is electronically frictionless. Why not us?” "

 

wikipedia:

"Switzerland is not a member state of the European Union (EU). It is associated with the Union through a series of bilateral treaties in which Switzerland has adopted various provisions of European Union law in order to participate in the Union's single market, without joining as a member state."

 

 

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38 minutes ago, kiplette said:

If his wife and kids have been there the whole time then he has been resident and paying taxes here the whole time. Just working away. It is not so easy to leave the Finanzamt behind.

Yep he has been resident in Germany for many years, and when in the UK his centre of life, wife and children were in Germany and he returned all the time.

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15 minutes ago, AnswerToLife42 said:

 

Why did so many "intelligent" Britons vote for Brexit and now complain about the consequences on their lifes?

Roger Daltree, The Who:

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2021/jan/20/brexiter-roger-daltrey-criticises-restrictions-for-musicians-touring-europ

"He clarified that he had not changed his position on Brexit. “I’m glad to be free of Brussels, not Europe. I would have preferred reform, which was asked for by us before the referendum and was turned down by the then president of the EU.” "

" Following publication of the letter, Daltrey, 76, said: “Every tour, individual actors and musicians should be treated as any other ‘goods’ at the point of entry to the EU with one set of paperwork. Switzerland has borders with five EU countries and trade is electronically frictionless. Why not us?” "

 

wikipedia:

"Switzerland is not a member state of the European Union (EU). It is associated with the Union through a series of bilateral treaties in which Switzerland has adopted various provisions of European Union law in order to participate in the Union's single market, without joining as a member state."

 

 

 

A Switzerland type solution is what the UK should have negotiated.  Ok, we would still have lost our clout at the EU's policy making level, but at least Brexit wouldn't have messed up the nitty gritty effecting people's lives, when going backwards and forwards, and moving freely around.  

Re-negotaiting this should be the policy aim of a future UK Government, that's if the other countries are still in the mood to deal with us.  

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34 minutes ago, alexunterwegs said:

 

A Switzerland type solution is what the UK should have negotiated.  Ok, we would still have lost our clout at the EU's policy making level, but at least Brexit wouldn't have messed up the nitty gritty effecting people's lives, when going backwards and forwards, and moving freely around.  

Re-negotaiting this should be the policy aim of a future UK Government, that's if the other countries are still in the mood to deal with us.  

This was the game we played but really should have avoided.

To many different groups wanting different levels of leaving. 

From your rich Moggs of the word wanting a total out (which is easy for them, they're rich enough to not really be hit bay any problems) to the main thing said during the campaign 'we won't be leaving the single market'.

 

Trying to balance that, keep people happy (or at least the right people from the point of view of the tory party) has landed us where we are today. 

if we are seriously looking at things that stay the same and saying 'that's great' then we have lost the game. Especially if we use them to direct attention away from he bits that are worse than they were before.

 

Looking back, no one knew what they voted for as I doubt it is what they got. They may have voted for what they wanted to happen, which I also doubt they got.

 

Add in that for some reason the electorate decided to field their C team with the cleaner in charge, and that is why we are where we are.

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2 hours ago, keith2011 said:

I really can't see why they would be unhappy that Nissan has decided to stay despite the UK (or at least part of it ;)) leaving the EU customs union. The FTA may not be anywhere as advantageous for the UK as promised by the leave campaign but none the less if it keeps major EU exporters like Nissan in place I don't understand why someone would regard that as negative with respect to brexit voters in Sunderland. It certainly would have been ironic given the big majority leave vote in Sunderland had Nissan decided to pack up and go somewhere else.

They`re unhappy with the deal.If the deal wasn`t made Nissan wouldn`t have stayed.

 

This is what you said....

 

6 hours ago, keith2011 said:

It would seem to reinforce a pro brexit opinion or did you not read the article?

How does Nissan staying,which they would have done if the UK had stayed in the EU have anything to do with a pro Brexit opinion.

Brexit was supposed to make the UK better not just maintain it how it was.

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1 hour ago, AnswerToLife42 said:

Simon lived in Berlin for 16 years!

"Rattle said his decision to return to Germany, where he conducted the Berlin Philharmonic for 16 years, was taken so he could be close to his family in the German capital, but he made his frustration with Britain’s political direction clear.

“The fact that musicians and artists in general suddenly have to get visas for Europe is absolutely not the Brexit bonus we were talking about,” he said. “We will have to fight it.”

 

Why did so many "intelligent" Britons vote for Brexit and now complain about the consequences on their lifes?

Roger Daltree, The Who:

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2021/jan/20/brexiter-roger-daltrey-criticises-restrictions-for-musicians-touring-europ

"He clarified that he had not changed his position on Brexit. “I’m glad to be free of Brussels, not Europe. I would have preferred reform, which was asked for by us before the referendum and was turned down by the then president of the EU.” "

" Following publication of the letter, Daltrey, 76, said: “Every tour, individual actors and musicians should be treated as any other ‘goods’ at the point of entry to the EU with one set of paperwork. Switzerland has borders with five EU countries and trade is electronically frictionless. Why not us?” "

 

wikipedia:

"Switzerland is not a member state of the European Union (EU). It is associated with the Union through a series of bilateral treaties in which Switzerland has adopted various provisions of European Union law in order to participate in the Union's single market, without joining as a member state."

 

 

This is an example of the "The EU needs us more than we need them because we`re the UK.Blitz spirit and all that" thinking that was prevalent amongst Brexiteers.

That really blew up in those peoples faces.

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Just now, Keleth said:

This is an example of the "The EU needs us more than we need them because we`re the UK.Blitz spirit and all that" thinking that was prevalent amongst Brexiteers.

That really blew up in those peoples faces.

Yep, when a romantic view based on events people never experienced is not tempered with a dose of realism, it blows up in their faces.

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7 hours ago, alexunterwegs said:

As for Nissan deciding not to do what they probably would have done, is just maintaining the status quo. Its not a benefit. 

 

Quote from the BBC article:-

It said it will move additional battery production close to the plant where it has 6,000 direct employees and supports nearly 70,000 jobs in the supply chain.

Currently, the batteries in its Leaf electric cars are imported from Japan.

 

That's not bad I How about adding that to your positive list.

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Nissan are worried about the ROO making their cars not British because the battery counts for much of the value of an ev.

 

They already make the smaller battery in the UK. They will now begin making the larger 62kW version.

 

I'd say Sunderland can breathe a sigh of relief if and when the next new model is given to it to produce. Not before then.

 

Why?

 

Because border friction impacts heavily on the just in time supply chains which car assembly is built on. If Nissan have to keep stopping the line because a truck is stuck in Calais then they will have to reconsider their position.

 

At the moment Covid is causing worldwide shortages of components anyway so it's masking the issue (Nissan stopped the line already this year for that reason) but this affects most car manufacturers at the moment. If and when we put Covid behind us, then we'll see how easy it difficult it is to keep supply chains moving.

 

Ultimately though we are talking about a factory not closing here. 

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