Brexit: The fallout

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Which is why the UK were the long time winners of the Olympic 'sucking air though their teeth' event.

 

1951 to 1974, every year... Gold, Silver and Bronze. Strangely people overlook this and always bang about the world cup..

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30 minutes ago, SpiderPig said:

Lets face it, now is the perfect time for the UK engineering companies to pull their finger from up their arses and re-build the UK Auto industry! 

Whilst I want this to happen too, the easiest/quickest way for it to happen would have been with a bit of help from the UK government (which being outside the EU it SHOULD have been free to do)...of course, Boris gave away that flexibility as part of his wonderful deal. 

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Quote

 

More than 100 British musicians, from Ed Sheeran, Sting and Pink Floyd's Roger Waters to classical stars like conductor Simon Rattle, have said tours of Europe by British artists are in danger because of Brexit.

In a letter to The Times newspaper published on Wednesday, the musicians said the government had "shamefully" broken a promise to negotiate a deal allowing musicians to perform in the European Union without the need for visas or work permits.

 

They called for a reciprocal deal allowing paperwork-free travel for both British and European touring artists.

"The deal done with the EU has a gaping hole where the promised free movement for musicians should be: everyone on a European music tour will now need costly work permits and a mountain of paperwork for their equipment," they wrote.

 

 

the rest

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On 20/01/2021, 15:19:35, SpiderPig said:

Lets face it, now is the perfect time for the UK engineering companies to pull their finger from up their arses and re-build the UK Auto industry! 

 

lets face it.. when the UK had an Auto industry, very little was imported!  

 

You'd have to convince the populous to buy Hondas, Nissan's, and Jaguars. But on top of that, Honda are pulling out and are no longer selling saloon cars bigger than Civics in the UK, Nissan are selling small cars and SUVs, and Jaguar are low volume production-wise and more expensive to buy new because the dealers cannot offer the same discounts as Audi/BMW/Mercedes as a result of being low volume. 

 

Instead, the Brexit deal means that buying German will still be the default position for a lot of UK car buyers.

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22 minutes ago, Mackle said:

the Brexit deal means that buying German will still be the default position for a lot of UK car buyers

Certainly in the very short term. The deal completely helps the German manufacturers. However, German cars have only become the default choice over the past 10-20 years. Beforehand it was the Japanese producers that fared well alongside the staples of Ford and Vauxhall. One of the main reasons for the change was affluency: people bought German cars (particularly moving from, say the Ford Mondeo to a 3 series BMW) because they could afford to.

One seemingly certain side effect of Brexit over the next few years (at least), will be people becoming poorer. It may also take a bit longer (and accordingly cost a little more) to get spares for German vehicles. That "might" tip people towards a UK-based manufacturer...but as you infer, there has to be a ready-made UK alternative.

As I've mentioned several times previously, UK commitments to avoid state aid in the Brexit deal was a missed opportunity for the government to give UK manufacturers more of a helping hand to encourage a UK alternative.

 

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1 hour ago, dstanners said:

As I've mentioned several times previously, UK commitments to avoid state aid in the Brexit deal was a missed opportunity for the government to give UK manufacturers more of a helping hand to encourage a UK alternative.

 

It's not as simple as all that. If the UK insisted on subsidizing its manufacturers, that would have unbalanced the "level playing field" and ruled out the duty-free deal that was eventually made. It's not for nothing that all state aid by EU members has to be approved by the European Commission.

 

The UK was told early on that it would not be allowed to cherry-pick - choosing which regulations it chose to follow and which it didn't - if it still wanted access to the EU single market. But the morons in charge of policy simply doubled down on "British exceptionalism", claiming the EU would inevitably cave into British demands, until they didn't.

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The leave EU twitter feed is like reading some cry baby saying the world is terrible and no one likes us, and everyone is out to get us and the world is mean and why won't people give us what we want and not try to get what they want.

 

It's embarrassing. They've said 'stiff upper lip' a few times but reading it, it's all quivering bottom lip, pet lip sticking out and tears rolling down the cheeks. For a group of people who seem to want to represent a nation, it is actually beyond embarrassing, it's cringe worthy.

 

For a *cough* organisation based in the *cough* UK, they sure like using fox news for information.

 

 

 

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34 minutes ago, El Jeffo said:

It's not as simple as all that. If the UK insisted on subsidizing its manufacturers, that would have unbalanced the "level playing field" and ruled out the duty-free deal that was eventually made.

I get the point that the "deal" depended upon a level playing field. My point is that given the deal failed to include the key item for which UK actually requires free movement from an export perspective (financial services), then it was not worth having. The UK has the downsides of frictionless trade (that EU manufacturers can continue to sell their products in the UK), without the upside (the UK being able to sell its financial services in the EU). A realignment/restructure of the UK economy towards manufacturing (and thus creating the opportunity to sell into the EU under the deal) can only be implemented swiftly with some sort of state aid - which the deal prevents it from doing!

All in a catch 22 of Boris' own creation. 

 

I suppose the only positive is that the deal is so bad, it is perhaps more likely to encourage the public to reconsider re-joining the EU. As has been mentioned by several other posters though, the chances of the UK being allowed to rejoin on terms anywhere near as favourable as those previously in place are very low indeed.

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7 minutes ago, dstanners said:

I get the point that the "deal" depended upon a level playing field. My point is that given the deal failed to include the key item for which UK actually requires free movement from an export perspective (financial services), then it was not worth having. The UK has the downsides of frictionless trade (that EU manufacturers can continue to sell their products in the UK), without the upside (the UK being able to sell its financial services in the EU). A realignment/restructure of the UK economy towards manufacturing (and thus creating the opportunity to sell into the EU under the deal) can only be implemented swiftly with some sort of state aid - which the deal prevents it from doing!

All in a catch 22 of Boris' own creation. 

 

I suppose the only positive is that the deal is so bad, it is perhaps more likely to encourage the public to reconsider re-joining the EU. As has been mentioned by several other posters though, the chances of the UK being allowed to rejoin on terms anywhere near as favourable as those previously in place are very low indeed.

If that is true then you have managed to spot something that pretty much all brexit supporters have missed.

This wouldn't surprise me as to see this, you had to actually think about it. After that you had to work through the concepts involved and finally come to a conclusion.

That is three steps beyond your average brexit supporter.

 

They do a small half step at the beginning called 'reading' in which they skim through some buzz words and then thy smile, nod and go abut their day happy that we are getting everything we wanted and more and with that winning feeling that only being unaware of what is actually gong on can bring.

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26 minutes ago, dstanners said:

I get the point that the "deal" depended upon a level playing field. My point is that given the deal failed to include the key item for which UK actually requires free movement from an export perspective (financial services), then it was not worth having. The UK has the downsides of frictionless trade (that EU manufacturers can continue to sell their products in the UK), without the upside (the UK being able to sell its financial services in the EU). A realignment/restructure of the UK economy towards manufacturing (and thus creating the opportunity to sell into the EU under the deal) can only be implemented swiftly with some sort of state aid - which the deal prevents it from doing!

 

The UK let its arrogance influence its negotiating policy, played chicken with the EU, and then lost. 

 

Quote

I suppose the only positive is that the deal is so bad, it is perhaps more likely to encourage the public to reconsider re-joining the EU.

 

I don't think it was done on purpose.

 

Quote

As has been mentioned by several other posters though, the chances of the UK being allowed to rejoin on terms anywhere near as favourable as those previously in place are very low indeed.

 

I suspect that many of the UK's top bureaucrats who previously managed to finesse special privileges from the EU have either retired or transferred to work directly at the EU and that the best of the next generation went to work for the the EU as soon as they could. I suspect that the UK has lost their best talent and it'll take years to bounce back. 

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7 hours ago, dstanners said:

Certainly in the very short term. The deal completely helps the German manufacturers. However, German cars have only become the default choice over the past 10-20 years. Beforehand it was the Japanese producers that fared well alongside the staples of Ford and Vauxhall. One of the main reasons for the change was affluency: people bought German cars (particularly moving from, say the Ford Mondeo to a 3 series BMW) because they could afford to.

One seemingly certain side effect of Brexit over the next few years (at least), will be people becoming poorer. It may also take a bit longer (and accordingly cost a little more) to get spares for German vehicles. That "might" tip people towards a UK-based manufacturer...but as you infer, there has to be a ready-made UK alternative.

As I've mentioned several times previously, UK commitments to avoid state aid in the Brexit deal was a missed opportunity for the government to give UK manufacturers more of a helping hand to encourage a UK alternative.

 

 

I have always bought German cars on the simple principle that they have been one of the few countries not to have gone down the inbuilt obsolescene route.  That started with General Motors back in the 1920's, and sadly the principle spread,  not least to companies like British Leyland and Ford.

Volkswagen,  on the other hand, made a point of rejecting inbuilt obsolescene.  My VW Polo is still on the road with 280k kms and looking good! I can think of several models where I'd be lucky to get 5 years out of. 

 

That's another big downside for UK consumers from Brexit. They may well find they get priced out of affording German cars, and a lot else (assisted by the idiots calling for boycotts and alike of EU products).  So they have to make do with what else they can find. I can only see curbs on alot of EU products reaching the UK consumers as a dumbing down of standards. They lose out on alot of quality products and end up with more tat. 

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24 minutes ago, alexunterwegs said:

 

I have always bought German cars on the simple principle that they have been one of the few countries not to have gone down the inbuilt obsolescene route.  That started with General Motors back in the 1920's, and sadly the principle spread,  not least to companies like British Leyland and Ford.

Volkswagen,  on the other hand, made a point of rejecting inbuilt obsolescene.  My VW Polo is still on the road with 280k kms and looking good! I can think of several models where I'd be lucky to get 5 years out of. 

 

That's another big downside for UK consumers from Brexit. They may well find they get priced out of affording German cars, and a lot else (assisted by the idiots calling for boycotts and alike of EU products).  So they have to make do with what else they can find. I can only see curbs on alot of EU products reaching the UK consumers as a dumbing down of standards. They lose out on alot of quality products and end up with more tat. 

 

Our VW Passat is going strong, about 25 years old, with well over 500,000 km on the clock!

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13 minutes ago, Feierabend said:

 

Our VW Passat is going strong, about 25 years old, with well over 500,000 km on the clock!

Probably caused 20x less damage to the enviroment too!!  Compared to a new Tesla style car!

 

 

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