Brexit: The fallout

17,381 posts in this topic

Brexit supporters like the taste of Mogg's shit! They wolf that shit down eagerly.

 

Madness to the rest of us. Is it some sort of self deprecating fetish they enjoy??

 

The class system really is alive and well.

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26 minutes ago, murphaph said:

Brexit supporters like the taste of Mogg's shit! They wolf that shit down eagerly.

 

Madness to the rest of us. Is it some sort of self deprecating fetish they enjoy??

 

The class system really is alive and well.

 

Amongst some of the working class Brexit voters, there is a real disdain for British people who used FoM. At one point, I used to routinely have arguments with the same people on Guy Verhofstadt's facebook page, who would accuse me of being some kind of class traitor as I identified as a working class person working in the EEA.  

 

In 2017 I went to a friend's stag weekend in York. At one point, someone outside of the stag group heard me talking about living in Germany, and decided to have a go at me for being "a traitor". The guy was alcohol fuelled, so his logic did not make sense at all (one of the ridiculous things he said was "people like me" were in the EU taking the jobs that Eastern Europeans could have been doing, and so I was directly responsible for them "coming over here instead to take our jobs!"). One of the barmaids was able to gently walk him to the door, after he said something about hoping that Brexit would mean that "people like me" were kicked out of our EEA hosts, and had to grovel before any consideration could be given as to whether the UK let us back in.

 

It is not surprising that people with this mindset are happy to wolf it down when Rees-Mogg casually implied the removal of rights was just a correction (the LBC interview I referenced earlier was back when he was a backbencher, Theresa May was PM, and her Withdrawal Agreement had been rejected).

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8 minutes ago, Wulfrun said:

6003fd24d3340_brexitfail.jpg.37860422359

 

I'm surprised that it doesn't go on to say "Meanwhile, Iain Duncan Smith and John Redwood described the reports as Project Fear"

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1 hour ago, murphaph said:

The class system really is alive and well.

 

It is, but it's become incredibly twisted, and not too dissimilar from what we have seen in the US with "deep state" and "swamp" being bandied around.  In the UK. public sector workers (especially in civil service and public institutions) are being labelled as "the elite", by Eton-educated cads and bounders. 

 

The Civil Service are portrayed by some as being the EU-installed/loyal elite (we have seen MPs use this language in Parliament), and it's made some leavers fiercely loyal to the likes of Mogg and Johnson who are "our Elite not Brussels elites forced on us".  There are former Leave.EU members/supporters who are now actively involved in promoting culture war rhetoric regarding Public Sector institutions - people like London assembly member and ex-MEP Peter Whittle have actually setup ThinkTanks dedicated to propagating this stuff, and Whittle uses all of his allotted question time in the London Assembly accusing everyone from the Mayor, to the police and other official London bodies, of basically being infiltrated by remainers and part of the EU equivalent of "Deep State".

 

It's fascinating to me that the year 2016 brought out similar divides in both the US and UK, at the same time.

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On 1/14/2021, 11:34:22, yesterday said:

... start to thinking the BREXITERS have gone silent now they can see what a crap deal the UK got, full of problems for the UK econmany,

 

On 1/14/2021, 12:05:42, murphaph said:

The Brexiteers are gone. Brexit has finally made contact with reality and imploded. 

 

On 1/16/2021, 6:42:12, AlexTr said:

I noticed that the regular Brexiteers are gone. Do you think they realize the mess that Brexit is causing and are ashamed? Or are they simply trying to gin up new arguments why it's all fine?

 

Guys, I'm gonna let you into a big secret here but you have to promise not to tell anyone! 

 

The reason it has gone quiet here is because Mr. Putin got Brexit done via the Toytown Siberian Troll Farm and it is over.

 

We have now been ordered by Comrade Putin to stand down and #disengage!  

 

😂

Of course, that was a joke, but joking aside, I am actually flattered that you have missed ignoring me, to the point that you have written about missing ignoring me. 

 

I have had a cursory look at the posts in this thread since I last posted and I am not surprised that there is now no debate in this thread.  

 

The predicted end of the world never came and you are now doubling down on any titbits of negativity you can find on the BBC, in the Guardian or from random people on Twitter. 

 

Project fear failed and all that is left is the Remainer Doomsday Cult. 

 

 

On 1/15/2021, 9:15:50, murphaph said:

If I was a sad bastard I might go down that road but I have better things to do lol.

 

You are, though. 

 

Are you really going to spend the rest of your life effing and blinding on Toytown about Brexit?

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2 hours ago, Mackle said:

Sadly MPs and Brexit supporters do not care about us.

I think thats been painfully obvious from the start.

 

Quote

The Brexit-supporters beloved Jacob Rees-Mogg has been extremely dismissive about British people living in the EEA whist being a guest on LBC. In his own words on live radio, British people who used FoM to move abroad did it "using rights that should not have been available to all", and that if those people lost their rights then it was "merely a correction and righting a wrong".

Thats very kind of him.

Some people (self included) moved out as the request of a government organisation (in my case what was then known as the Science & Engineering Research Council SERC).

That after a number of years roots were put down is a natural process.

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15 hours ago, Mackle said:

I've found listening to the radio phone-ins quite illuminating ...

 

I'm gonna stop you there! 

 

Radio shows illuminating? 

 

Let me Guess, Radio Bilge FM? 

 

Do you know how radio works?

 

That's right, find someone thick as mince and stick em on the airwaves for entertainment!

 

15 hours ago, Mackle said:

as to how some of @murphaph's aforementioned workers think. I heard so many people with salt-of-the-Earth accents from around various parts of England, getting very animated when the subject of workers rights comes up when calling these shows since 2016, with various comments along the theme of "we don't need Mr. Juncker to say what our work rules are, the only person that should decide this is my boss!". One of the Brexiters favourite comments to remain-voters is "if you don't like it, LEAVE!", and I have also heard people say that this should also be true of the workplace - I think amongst some there is a strong belief that employers should have the right to have working conditions that "are best for businesses" and that if individual employees decide they don't like those conditions then the onus should on the employee to leave rather than the employer to act ethically. 

 

 

15 hours ago, Mackle said:

I so want to click on that link, but I know I will be up all night reading the angry comments from those who just want to read "Brexit Good News"

 

15 hours ago, john_b said:

It's actually a blog post that references the Daily Fail, so don't worry, you're in no danger...

 

Haha, what is it with you guys and this self triggereing? 

 

2 hours ago, Mackle said:

Sadly MPs and Brexit supporters do not care about us.

 

As I said up thread, it often comes as a shock when people realise that outside of their own bubble, no one cares. 

 

Does it shock you that people living in the UK don't give a fuck about you and your decision to leave the country? 

 

1 hour ago, Mackle said:

... I used to routinely have arguments with the same people on Guy Verhofstadt's facebook page, ...

 

Fascinating! 

 

47 minutes ago, Mackle said:

The Civil Service are portrayed by some as being the EU-installed/loyal elite (we have seen MPs use this language in Parliament), and it's made some leavers fiercely loyal to the likes of Mogg and Johnson who are "our Elite not Brussels elites forced on us".  There are former Leave.EU members/supporters who are now actively involved in promoting culture war rhetoric regarding Public Sector institutions - people like London assembly member and ex-MEP Peter Whittle have actually setup ThinkTanks dedicated to propagating this stuff, and Whittle uses all of his allotted question time in the London Assembly accusing everyone from the Mayor, to the police and other official London bodies, of basically being infiltrated by remainers and part of the EU equivalent of "Deep State".

 

 Morans spouting hot air and you regurgitating it for the Brexit Doomsday Cult. 

 

Brilliant, Mackle! 

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16 hours ago, Mackle said:

 

This is something that I think I've mentioned on here before, and I've previously described it as English people having an ingrained serf mentality that I don't think the Scots or the people in Northern Ireland have. This is why South of the border there seems to be this bewildering level of trust and respect that people give to Boris Johnson and Jacob Rees-Mogg because they are of "better class", whereas North of the border the people see these characters for the charlatans that they are. 

 

I've found listening to the radio phone-ins quite illuminating as to how some of @murphaph's aforementioned workers think. I heard so many people with salt-of-the-Earth accents from around various parts of England, getting very animated when the subject of workers rights comes up when calling these shows since 2016, with various comments along the theme of "we don't need Mr. Juncker to say what our work rules are, the only person that should decide this is my boss!". One of the Brexiters favourite comments to remain-voters is "if you don't like it, LEAVE!", and I have also heard people say that this should also be true of the workplace - I think amongst some there is a strong belief that employers should have the right to have working conditions that "are best for businesses" and that if individual employees decide they don't like those conditions then the onus should on the employee to leave rather than the employer to act ethically. 

 

Another argument that I have heard is that workers rights actually hold people back and creates a form of indebted servitude rather than protecting workers. Some people, like Nigel Farage, Richard Tice, Michael Heaver, Tim Martin will not go in to details of what it is that they don't like about them other than empty words about them holding business back and needing to "unleash Brexit competitive advantage". Others do better explain it, insisting that minimum wages, workers rights, and a German-style society where workers are respected, is a slippery socialist slope because in such society people are encouraged to remain as mere workers and are dissuaded from starting their own businesses and being their own boss. People who parrot this stuff usually try and back it up insisting that it's easier for the average person to become a self-made millionaire in America, than it is in Germany, and posting statistics that make no real sense.  Even friends of mine, who are otherwise intelligent people working in the services sector who will always remain as corporate workers, will insist regardless of whether they voted leave or remain, will always insist that the UK is a place where they will always have the potential to make something of themselves in the future, that doesn't exist in countries that they perceive to be more left leaning - it's totally bizarre but again I think it's part of the English psyche. 

Nice

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On 1/16/2021, 7:30:37, Keleth said:

I would love someone to tell me what when they wake up one morning in 10 years time will be different for them whether the UK was still in the EU or not be any different.

 

Some people will have the luxury of waking up in 10 years' time thanks to the UK not being part of the EU's vaccination shambles. 

 

And when the wake up they will have, more jobs, more opportunity, more money in their pockets, etc, etc, etc.  The UK has been unshackled from the EU and now controls its own destiny, sets its own laws, etc, etc, etc.  However, trees will still look the same, it will still rain, and Germans will still think Dinner for One is hilarious.  

 

Mate, the EU shitting itself that the UK left tells you all you need to know.  The UK will go from strengt to strength! 

 

The outward looking UK will trounce the inward looking EU which seems intent on stifling innovation and trying to foist a one size fits all approach on its members. 

 

To those countries who have nailed their balls to the EU and have the Euro, all I can say, is good luck! 
 

And what of the EU in 10 years time?

 

How do you think the EU will look in 10 years time? 

 

On 1/16/2021, 8:58:26, murphaph said:

You can't send as much as a Primark T shirt for £2 from the UK to the EU with dpd now because it's too burdened with paperwork. 

 

How does the rest of the world do business with the EU, then? 

 

Seems like your organisation doesn't like business. 

 

 

 

On 1/16/2021, 9:57:33, murphaph said:

 But on the whole we were far stronger together. 

 

Whenever I read your stronger together mumbo-jumbo I am reminded of what that bald bloke, Charles Darwin said. 

 

It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is most adaptable to change.

 

The world has changed and the UK is off! 

 

 The EU members can now fight it out among themselves and shape it as they want it without the UK interfering. 

 

On 1/15/2021, 8:52:48, john_b said:

Now now. Go steady on the Schadenfreude...

 

Screenshot 2021-01-15 at 08.51.09.jpg

 

John, you are a typical lefty academic who doesn't understand how business works, aren't you!

 

Let me educate you. 

 

Do you think EU businesses are buying UK fish to do us a favor?  

 

No, they are not. 

 

If they could get the fish from closer to home then why aren't they? 

 

They are buying it from the UK as EU waters have been raped by overfishing. 

 

So, your schadenfreude actually extends to EU companies who can no longer sell products and turn a profit. 

 

Well done! 

 

On 1/13/2021, 11:17:23, El Jeffo said:

That's right:

"Hey, you lot, get under that bus!"

"But we don't want to!"

"Just do it and we'll talk about it later."

"Hey, there's a billion euros under here!"

"Shhh!"

 

Billions from where, exactly? 

 

Thankfully, not the UK!

 

:lol:

 

On 1/14/2021, 1:27:33, alexunterwegs said:

The naive Express, Sun reading public thought, yeah stop the EU boats taking our fish, ... 

 

Quite fond of telling people what they think they think, aren't you, Alex! 

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3 hours ago, Mackle said:

 

Amongst some of the working class Brexit voters, there is a real disdain for British people who used FoM. At one point, I used to routinely have arguments with the same people on Guy Verhofstadt's facebook page, who would accuse me of being some kind of class traitor as I identified as a working class person working in the EEA.  

 

In 2017 I went to a friend's stag weekend in York. At one point, someone outside of the stag group heard me talking about living in Germany, and decided to have a go at me for being "a traitor". The guy was alcohol fuelled, so his logic did not make sense at all (one of the ridiculous things he said was "people like me" were in the EU taking the jobs that Eastern Europeans could have been doing, and so I was directly responsible for them "coming over here instead to take our jobs!"). One of the barmaids was able to gently walk him to the door, after he said something about hoping that Brexit would mean that "people like me" were kicked out of our EEA hosts, and had to grovel before any consideration could be given as to whether the UK let us back in.

 

It is not surprising that people with this mindset are happy to wolf it down when Rees-Mogg casually implied the removal of rights was just a correction (the LBC interview I referenced earlier was back when he was a backbencher, Theresa May was PM, and her Withdrawal Agreement had been rejected).

Of course that is how people winning at life behave, right.

Some people pull up their socks, work hard and try to  better heir situation, others try to pull people back, like crabs in a bucket. It's some serious self loathing that makes a person want others to do badly so they don't fell as bad about themselves.

Some people would be happy to be living in a pond of crap as long as they owned the only island. It's still a pond of crap, but they are dong better than anyone else in the pond.

 

It's a pretty stupid way to measure yourself but it tends to be all some people have got.

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Even when everyone knows what paperwork is required, and when it is being processed smoothly, it still carries cost. In the Scottish fish exporting trade, for just one example, 150,000 certificates will probably be needed annually.

Says Donna Fordyce, chief executive of Seafood Scotland: "The problem is no longer hypothetical. It is happening right now. We are doing all we can to help companies get the paperwork done. It will take time to fix - which we know many seafood companies can't afford right now.

"The last 24 hours has really delivered what was expected - new bureaucratic non-tariff barriers and no one body with the tools to be able to fix the situation" - least of all a prime minister who observed last week that the trade deal has left "no non-tariff barriers to trade".

From the BBC the rest is worth a read - What a pile of stinking shit this deal is

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Indeed yesterday, a foul stinking pile of poo, covered in the last few Brexit cheerleader bluebottles.

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4 hours ago, Mackle said:

 

It was something that Farage was often pushing on his LBC radio show before they parted company with him, that if companies needed someone with a particular set of skills then they could bring someone in for the purpose of that specific job but that person wouldn't have the right to bring family over with them, and that work permits should not be automatic paths towards residency because the country is overcrowded etc. The usual stuff that he spouts whilst walking this tightrope between saying provocative things about immigration whilst avoiding going far enough to stop being invited on to mainstream TV and radio. 

 

 

Sadly MPs and Brexit supporters do not care about us. In fact, go and read the comments pages of the Daily Mail and you'll see that some Brexit supporters view British people who live in the EEA as something akin to turncoats and traitors.  Actually, a general theme that have noticed since 2016 from listening to phone-ins and reading newspaper comments, is that there is a vocal element in England (again, it's usually England rather than the other members of the UK) who have strong feelings against British people who leave the UK to move anywhere (although Australia and the USA seem to be viewed as acceptable options by some). So if you move to the EEA, you are a pro-EU traitor, if you move to Canada or New Zealand you are a liberal snowflake purely because of Trudeau and Arden, if you move to Switzerland or the Middle East then you are a dirty tax dodger that should lose their British passport (Sir Lewis Hamilton gets a lot of online abuse about living in Switzerland but racing under a British Flag. Not just online either - Dr David Starkey has been a very vocal opponent of Hamilton's since Starkey cannot seem to conduct an interview without randomly moaning about the British anthem being played when Hamilton wins a race despite him living abroad like almost all F1 drivers do).

 

The Brexit-supporters beloved Jacob Rees-Mogg has been extremely dismissive about British people living in the EEA whist being a guest on LBC. In his own words on live radio, British people who used FoM to move abroad did it "using rights that should not have been available to all", and that if those people lost their rights then it was "merely a correction and righting a wrong".  When asked (I think by Nick Ferrari) as a follow up, what about Tory donors that since 2016 had obtained Cypriot and Maltese passports, JRM went full blown elitist by saying that they were men of incredible quality who deserved the recognition that those countries had bestowed upon them with citizenship. That interview made me ******* sick when I heard it.

 

Isn't Farage the bloke who was seen queuing up at the German Embassy for some undisclosed private business?  The man who tells us we shouldn't be having all these dealings with Europeans. Normally you would only visit a foreign embassy if you want something from them, in the way of a passport or some kind of licence or permission. Not saying Farage is unique. There are lots of people who have a 'don't do as I do, do as I say' attitude to things, or as it was once called, I'm all right Jack.

 

 Luckily, I can't think of any British people I've come onto contact with suggesting I shouldn't be living elsewhere in Europe. I don't doubt they exist, but you'd hope they are a dying breed and that these Daily Mail letter writers are not mainstream. Luckily repesentative parliamentary democracy means that the main parties tone down the more extreme wacky views to be more palatable to a wider voting public. But some of Rees-Mogg's policy ideas sound like he should be in UKIP or the Brexit party, but maybe they don't suit his 'superior' image in other ways. 

 

Trying to deny people the right to live elsewhere, not talking about foreigners coming in (the usual gripe of xenophobes), is an extreme form of intolerance. Not dissimilar to what happened in the former East European countries under Communist rule. It was illegal to move abroad, in fact some some were shot for attempting to. One of my best East German friends had to regularly report to the police because she had applied to leave the country. 

Hopefully, we are nowhere near that in the UK, but when you have people spouting this type of rubbish, its not long before some populist politicians might see it as a convenient bandwagon to jump on. 

 

 

 

 

 

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20 hours ago, yesterday said:

I guess the BBC is good enough   https://www.bbc.com/news/46401558

It basically says what I said

 

Yes they can have 100% of the fish but it will cost them in taxes when they sell it to the EU which they will have to because the stuff the sell to the EU is not wanted in the UK unless the UK changes it fish eating habits.

So basically the deal say "yes you can keep 100% of the fish but now you have to sell it for less profit than you did before" so no real win there is there except to make as much money now the fishermen will have to catch more fish which means longer hours etc meaning more outgoings.

21 hours ago, yesterday said:

The fishermen want 100% access from jan 2021, the Boris did a deal were it would take five years. So of course that's going to upset the fishermen.

Yes but what they won`t get after those 5 years is 100% with the ability to sell it to the EU without being punished for it monetarily.

 

Just admit the govt has fucked everyone over with this deal.Leavers,remainers everyone.

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32 minutes ago, Keleth said:

Yes they can have 100% of the fish but it will cost them in taxes when they sell it to the EU which they will have to because the stuff the sell to the EU is not wanted in the UK unless the UK changes it fish eating habits.

 

"Let them eat fish"...

 

(you can put almost anything into fish pie which I have made several times & is extremely lecker...)

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8 minutes ago, HEM said:

(you can put almost anything into fish pie which I have made several times & is extremely lecker...)

I can`t abide fish or any type or seafood which Germans seem to find highly amusing as I`m English.

Come to think of it though everyone I knew in England used to love fish.

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Same here, Keleth!😂

I still support the Shrimpers, though! ( Not a wise choice in life, I know!)

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