Brexit: The fallout

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Yada yada yada...The Express has a cupboard full of these articles which it regurgitates ad infinitum. Next up expect a leader piece by Farage on why Ireland is desperate to leave the EU or a candid interview with Andy Wigmore on why he's about to become the UK's Honorary Consul in Belarus.

 

The Mail is taking a more apocalyptic line at the moment:

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/daily-mail-warns-of-brexit-food-crisis-as-mountains-of-fish-rots-and-fresh-food-is-held-up/15/01/

 

 

91b5d244-daily-mail-brexit.jpg

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10 minutes ago, john_b said:

How it started                                      How it's going

91b5d244-daily-mail-brexit.jpg

 

John, I keep telling you: you gotta meme that shit, man, or kids won't pay attention these days.

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Just now, El Jeffo said:

 

John, I keep telling you: you gotta meme that shit, man, or kids won't pay attention these days.

 

Von El Jeffo lernen heisst siegen lernen!

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On 14/01/2021, 15:47:40, murphaph said:

He and his deliberately mediocre cabinet are way out of their depths

 

 

It's shocking to watch, yet somehow I suspect that if there was a general election tomorrow he'd get in again

 

Slight segway, but I heard that the forthcoming UK Foxnews equivalents (UK News and GB News) will be available in Ireland? What on Earth are people there going to make of this absolute litter when broadcasting starts?

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On 15/01/2021, 15:33:30, murphaph said:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-workers-rights-eu-b1787603.html

 

Brexiteers want to eliminate workers' rights.

 

Aided and abetted by workers.

 

 

 

This is something that I think I've mentioned on here before, and I've previously described it as English people having an ingrained serf mentality that I don't think the Scots or the people in Northern Ireland have. This is why South of the border there seems to be this bewildering level of trust and respect that people give to Boris Johnson and Jacob Rees-Mogg because they are of "better class", whereas North of the border the people see these characters for the charlatans that they are. 

 

I've found listening to the radio phone-ins quite illuminating as to how some of @murphaph's aforementioned workers think. I heard so many people with salt-of-the-Earth accents from around various parts of England, getting very animated when the subject of workers rights comes up when calling these shows since 2016, with various comments along the theme of "we don't need Mr. Juncker to say what our work rules are, the only person that should decide this is my boss!". One of the Brexiters favourite comments to remain-voters is "if you don't like it, LEAVE!", and I have also heard people say that this should also be true of the workplace - I think amongst some there is a strong belief that employers should have the right to have working conditions that "are best for businesses" and that if individual employees decide they don't like those conditions then the onus should on the employee to leave rather than the employer to act ethically. 

 

Another argument that I have heard is that workers rights actually hold people back and creates a form of indebted servitude rather than protecting workers. Some people, like Nigel Farage, Richard Tice, Michael Heaver, Tim Martin will not go in to details of what it is that they don't like about them other than empty words about them holding business back and needing to "unleash Brexit competitive advantage". Others do better explain it, insisting that minimum wages, workers rights, and a German-style society where workers are respected, is a slippery socialist slope because in such society people are encouraged to remain as mere workers and are dissuaded from starting their own businesses and being their own boss. People who parrot this stuff usually try and back it up insisting that it's easier for the average person to become a self-made millionaire in America, than it is in Germany, and posting statistics that make no real sense.  Even friends of mine, who are otherwise intelligent people working in the services sector who will always remain as corporate workers, will insist regardless of whether they voted leave or remain, will always insist that the UK is a place where they will always have the potential to make something of themselves in the future, that doesn't exist in countries that they perceive to be more left leaning - it's totally bizarre but again I think it's part of the English psyche. 

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12 hours ago, engelchen said:

 

 

I don't think 10 years will be enough time to reverse Freedom of Movement for everybody. The UK (or what is left in 10 years) will (probably) still need skilled migrants, but not want to allow reciprocal full labour migration so soon.  I also think this will harm the UK more than the EU.

 

I agree. Some of the more prominent Brexiteers have publicly called for the new immigration system to not be a pathway to a form of permanent residency. but to be linked to a specific employer only, so that leaving that job means losing the right to remain, and switching jobs means a new application.

 

That is how the situations works in places like the UAE where it is the employer who handles the Visa to the point of actually taking custody of your passport for the part of it that happens once you are out there. The process of moving employer can take longer than a fresh work permit application from outside of the country, have seen that with some of my work colleagues. But the key difference between somewhere like the UAE and the UK, is that people will be paying taxes in the UK and contributing to the inland revenue coffers - personally I don't think it's ethical to happily gobble up tax revenue from people and then kick them out when their time with that particular employer is over. 

 

Hopefully the UK won't go down as strict an immigration path as that, but we are only two weeks in to the post-transition period and already there is talk of the working time directive being scrapped. 

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1 minute ago, Mackle said:

 

I so want to click on that link, but I know I will be up all night reading the angry comments from those who just want to read "Brexit Good News"

 

It's actually a blog post that references the Daily Fail, so don't worry, you're in no danger...

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Interesting post, Mackle!

I was a teacher at an international school in Indonesia in the 1980s and the boss was a no-nonsense Aussie. 

In that environment ( hot, humid etc ), teachers often fell ill ( even a case of dengue fever) and solidarity was required but not often forthcoming.

 

I was the DOS there after the previous guy left and had to arrange the teachers’ work times. It was frustrating because some felt privileged and couldn’t be bothered to step in at the last minute if someone fell ill. 
 

So it got to the stage where Graham, the Aussie, got annoyed and said: “

” no more recruiting of couples ( they get ill together or fuck off to play tennis and don’t give a shit ,”) ... “ no more Northern English - too bolshie “ and “ no more Harvard academics “ ( too stuck up and will not muck in when times are tough.” )

 

So true at that place!!

 

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2 minutes ago, john_b said:

 

It's actually a blog post that references the Daily Fail, so don't worry, you're in no danger...

 

Damn, this is one instance where I would probably like reading the comments rather than being disturbed by them :P 

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8 hours ago, yesterday said:

Again to be fair, the UK can sell fish to Europe, but the exporters are not filling out the papier work correctly, so they get turned back at the border. To be honest the irony on this, is the the Tory's the party of less red tape, has vastly increased papier  work and red tape. But this should improve once the the exporters learn how to fill out the forms correctly.

If you read this the reason the fishing industry is pissed at the deal is nothing to do with redtape.

https://www.sff.co.uk/letter-to-prime-minister-from-sff-chief-executive/

8 hours ago, yesterday said:

To be fair, the mass rise in food banks, came about after cuts that were made to various Government budgets

Um where did I say anything different.

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20 minutes ago, Keleth said:

If you read this the reason the fishing industry is pissed at the deal is nothing to do with redtape.

https://www.sff.co.uk/letter-to-prime-minister-from-sff-chief-executive/

Sure the fishermen are not going to be happy with the deal, The fishermen want 100% access from jan 2021, the Boris did a deal were it would take five years. So of course that's going to upset the fishermen.

The problems at the moment are related to https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jan/13/fresh-seafood-exports-scotland-eu-halted-fishing-brexit

Which should be sorted one day.

 

20 minutes ago, Keleth said:

Um where did I say anything different.

Because you seem to think food banks only came out after BREXIT, while clearly they were around years before that.

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1 minute ago, yesterday said:

Sure the fishermen are not going to be happy with the deal, The fishermen want 100% access from jan 2021, the Boris did a deal were it would take five years. So of course that's going to upset the fishermen.

The problems at the moment are related to https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jan/13/fresh-seafood-exports-scotland-eu-halted-fishing-brexit

Which should be sorted one day.

So the usual "suck it up" answer to the fishing industry ?

I don`t know what you think but I do know you either didn`t read that letter or understand it.

Especially pertinent is what happens after 5 years.I`ll even help you here " the EU fleet will continue to have full and unfettered access to UK waters until the middle of 2026, and should the UK want to change these arrangements at that point, the EU can impose a suite of punitive sanctions on the UK "

 

2 minutes ago, yesterday said:

Because you seem to think food banks only came out after BREXIT, while clearly they were around years before that.

Well fuck me I`m glad you know what I think.

 

Food banks etc came about because of austerity but Brexit was supposed to make the UK a better place for everyone not just the rich.

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1 minute ago, Keleth said:

So the usual "suck it up" answer to the fishing industry ?

I don`t know what you think but I do know you either didn`t read that letter or understand it.

Especially pertinent is what happens after 5 years.I`ll even help you here " the EU fleet will continue to have full and unfettered access to UK waters until the middle of 2026, and should the UK want to change these arrangements at that point, the EU can impose a suite of punitive sanctions on the UK "

 

The deal says

Every year from 2021 to until 2026 the UK gets a higher percentage of the fish caught, 2021 is a small change next year another small change etc, after that the UK gets 100 % of the fish - the EU wanted 15 years transition. So the EU percentage catch will go down each year, meaning the UK percentafe  will go down - your artikel is wrong about that, check the deal text.

The deal also states, after that there with be an annual negation of how much fish the EU boats can have.

Also it states the the EU can put taxes of UK fish, if the EU does not get a big enough allocation of fish.

 

1 minute ago, Keleth said:

Brexit was supposed to make the UK a better place for everyone not just the rich.

You have been listening to the BREXITERS if you believe that - I said all the time both sides would be worse off

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8 minutes ago, yesterday said:

Every year from 2021 to until 2026 the UK gets a higher percentage of the fish caught, 2021 is a small change next year another small change etc, after that the UK gets 100 % of the fish - the EU wanted 15 years transition. So the EU percentage catch will go down each year, meaning the UK percentafe  will go down - your artikel is wrong about that, check the deal text.

Link the text because everywhere else I`ve read has stated that it will be renegotiated in 2026 and if the UK wants to change those % then the tax on UK fish exported to the EU will increase.

 

9 minutes ago, yesterday said:

your artikel is wrong about that

Also that article as you put it is a letter to the govt from the Chief Executive of the Scottish Fishermens Federation.

I like to think and his members probably hope that he knows what the deal actually means a bit more than you learned from your googling.

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7 minutes ago, Keleth said:

Link the text because everywhere else I`ve read has stated that it will be renegotiated in 2026 and if the UK wants to change those % then the tax on UK fish exported to the EU will increase.

 

I guess the BBC is good enough   https://www.bbc.com/news/46401558

It basically says what I said

 

Quote

Also that article as you put it is a letter to the govt from the Chief Executive of the Scottish Fishermens Federation.

I like to think and his members probably hope that he knows what the deal actually means a bit more than you learned from your googling.

Read the above BBC stuff

Quote

 

Are you missing Luna or something

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2 hours ago, Mackle said:

 

I agree. Some of the more prominent Brexiteers have publicly called for the new immigration system to not be a pathway to a form of permanent residency. but to be linked to a specific employer only, so that leaving that job means losing the right to remain, and switching jobs means a new application.

 

That is how the situations works in places like the UAE where it is the employer who handles the Visa to the point of actually taking custody of your passport for the part of it that happens once you are out there. The process of moving employer can take longer than a fresh work permit application from outside of the country, have seen that with some of my work colleagues. But the key difference between somewhere like the UAE and the UK, is that people will be paying taxes in the UK and contributing to the inland revenue coffers - personally I don't think it's ethical to happily gobble up tax revenue from people and then kick them out when their time with that particular employer is over. 

 

Hopefully the UK won't go down as strict an immigration path as that, but we are only two weeks in to the post-transition period and already there is talk of the working time directive being scrapped. 

 

Hopefully its only a very small number of far-right wackos who are proposing tying immigration status in the UK to a specific job.  I'd be fairly shocked if that idea had alot of support amongst MPs.  Its an incredibly brutal way of ending someone's right to be in a country,  when you think of how families could be uprooted at a moment's notice. And given that the EU tend to work on the reciprocity principle for immigration, doesn't bear thinking about the implications for UK people working in the EU.   

 

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12 hours ago, alexunterwegs said:

 

Hopefully its only a very small number of far-right wackos who are proposing tying immigration status in the UK to a specific job

 

It was something that Farage was often pushing on his LBC radio show before they parted company with him, that if companies needed someone with a particular set of skills then they could bring someone in for the purpose of that specific job but that person wouldn't have the right to bring family over with them, and that work permits should not be automatic paths towards residency because the country is overcrowded etc. The usual stuff that he spouts whilst walking this tightrope between saying provocative things about immigration whilst avoiding going far enough to stop being invited on to mainstream TV and radio. 

 

12 hours ago, alexunterwegs said:

given that the EU tend to work on the reciprocity principle for immigration, doesn't bear thinking about the implications for UK people working in the EU.   

 

 

Sadly MPs and Brexit supporters do not care about us. In fact, go and read the comments pages of the Daily Mail and you'll see that some Brexit supporters view British people who live in the EEA as something akin to turncoats and traitors.  Actually, a general theme that have noticed since 2016 from listening to phone-ins and reading newspaper comments, is that there is a vocal element in England (again, it's usually England rather than the other members of the UK) who have strong feelings against British people who leave the UK to move anywhere (although Australia and the USA seem to be viewed as acceptable options by some). So if you move to the EEA, you are a pro-EU traitor, if you move to Canada or New Zealand you are a liberal snowflake purely because of Trudeau and Arden, if you move to Switzerland or the Middle East then you are a dirty tax dodger that should lose their British passport (Sir Lewis Hamilton gets a lot of online abuse about living in Switzerland but racing under a British Flag. Not just online either - Dr David Starkey has been a very vocal opponent of Hamilton's since Starkey cannot seem to conduct an interview without randomly moaning about the British anthem being played when Hamilton wins a race despite him living abroad like almost all F1 drivers do).

 

The Brexit-supporters beloved Jacob Rees-Mogg has been extremely dismissive about British people living in the EEA whist being a guest on LBC. In his own words on live radio, British people who used FoM to move abroad did it "using rights that should not have been available to all", and that if those people lost their rights then it was "merely a correction and righting a wrong".  When asked (I think by Nick Ferrari) as a follow up, what about Tory donors that since 2016 had obtained Cypriot and Maltese passports, JRM went full blown elitist by saying that they were men of incredible quality who deserved the recognition that those countries had bestowed upon them with citizenship. That interview made me ******* sick when I heard it.

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