Brexit: The fallout

17,022 posts in this topic

20 minutes ago, john_b said:

 

Well well...who knows?

 

At any rate, I think we're touching on a phenomenon that we see from our very own Brexiteers on this thread: behind all the noise and bluster, a deep sense of insecurity and buyer's remorse. Even if they won't ever admit it, you can be sure that deep down they know Brexit is a pig in a poke. 

 

I hope you are not putting me in your brexiteers camp but regardless this seems to me to be a very strange comment, what do you mean by "buyers remorse" and what is the connection to the quote you included by @snowingagain ???

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2 hours ago, MadAxeMurderer said:

 

I think I've been scarred for life growing up in Ireland where there were 6 cheeses. 3 brands of yellow tasteless cheddar, and 3 brands of orange tasteless cheddar.

 

 

 

Calvita, my Mother used to send it to me when I was in boarding school in the midlands - oh, the horror!

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48 minutes ago, keith2011 said:

 

Easy to say when your country is the smallest net contributor or is a benefactor of the EU.

 

Do you honestly believe British cheese makers will be at all worried about their miniscule exports to the EU (and anyway I would still be happy paying twice as much for a decent English Cheddar), more likely they are rubbing their hands in glee at the prospect of higher prices in the UK for French, Dutch and yes even that inferior Irish cheese and other diary products.

You can't help yourself Keith.

 

Ireland was trodden on and exploited for literally centuries by your wonderful country so forgive us if it takes a few decades to catch up. We were a net benefactor but thanks to single market access and being treated as an equal partner of the EU rather than a colony of Great Britain we are now a net contributor and hope to remain so. Ireland will have the world's fastest growing economy this year. We didn't amass our wealth by going around the world pointing gunboats at the natives and robbing all their natural resources while simultaneously forcing them at gunpoint to buy our exports. Remember where your country's old money came from!! A bit of fucking humility wouldn't go astray sometimes.

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If we think these talks between the UK and EU are acrimonious we ain't seen nothin yet. Just wait until Scotland secedes and the they start negotiating where the Scottish and rUK EEZ boundaries should be!! Not just fish stocks but oil reserves, proven and unproven to be divvied up. That will be fun. The remaining English EEZ will be pretty small in the end, especially if Cornwall declares independence lol!

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15 minutes ago, murphaph said:

You can't help yourself Keith.

 

Ireland was trodden on and exploited for literally centuries by your wonderful country so forgive us if it takes a few decades to catch up. We were a net benefactor but thanks to single market access and being treated as an equal partner of the EU rather than a colony of Great Britain we are now a net contributor and hope to remain so. Ireland will have the world's fastest growing economy this year. We didn't amass our wealth by going around the world pointing gunboats at the natives and robbing all their natural resources while simultaneously forcing them at gunpoint to buy our exports. Remember where your country's old money came from!! A bit of fucking humility wouldn't go astray sometimes.

 

And you can't help yourself either, keep on harping back to things that happened even before our grandparents were born, it was all the fault of the British! Not this time though, the UK has been shafted by the EU since day 1 and regardless of whether I think they should have stayed in and helped to improve it they have chosen to leave, democratically. I applaud their efforts to get the best out of the path they have chosen.

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800 years of oppression. And you stole our potatoes

 

Why didn't you steal the tasteless cheddar (and Tap's Calvita) and leave us our lovely spuds. 

I'm with the Indians on this. At least you left them their Garam Masala, and Bombay Alu

 

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Yep because those things that happened before our grandparents were born are still relevant. The whole NI "thing" can be traced back to at least the plantation (colonisation) of Ulster by Great Britain in 1690 yet here we are 400 years later tying ourselves in knots trying to work out how NI can be handled so that the powder keg doesn't explode again.

 

You've bought into the narrative of the Brexiteers if you believe the UK has been shafted. It has shot itself in the foot alright but that's not the same thing at all.

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3 hours ago, MadAxeMurderer said:

800 years of oppression. And you stole our potatoes

 

Why didn't you steal the tasteless cheddar (and Tap's Calvita) and leave us our lovely spuds. 

I'm with the Indians on this. At least you left them their Garam Masala, and Bombay Alu

 

 

Actually, back in the colony days, Ireland was a major exporter of *wheat* to England, while the cheaper potatoes fed the Irish farm workers.

That's why the Potatoe Famine killed so many Irish (and drove many to us in the US) - had British authorities stopped the wheat exports and fed the Irish population with that when multiple potato crops failed, history would have taken a different course to this day.

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3 hours ago, murphaph said:

 

Ireland was trodden on and exploited for literally centuries by your wonderful country so forgive us if it takes a few decades to catch up.

...

We didn't amass our wealth by going around the world pointing gunboats at the natives and robbing all their natural resources while simultaneously forcing them at gunpoint to buy our exports. Remember where your country's old money came from!! A bit of fucking humility wouldn't go astray sometimes.

 

3 hours ago, murphaph said:

Yep because those things that happened before our grandparents were born are still relevant. The whole NI "thing" can be traced back to at least the plantation (colonisation) of Ulster by Great Britain in 1690 yet here we are 400 years later tying ourselves in knots trying to work out how NI can be handled so that the powder keg doesn't explode again.

 

Come on, murphaph.   Try to show a bit more European unity.   One member's exit from the EU shouldn't launch you into full scorched earth genocidal mode.  

 

There will be plenty of time for your great-great-great-great grandkids to get revenge for what happened in 1690, as long as you continue your world class effort in holding a grudge and stoking ethnic hatred.    

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6 hours ago, keith2011 said:

 

And you can't help yourself either, keep on harping back to things that happened even before our grandparents were born, it was all the fault of the British! Not this time though, the UK has been shafted by the EU since day 1 and regardless of whether I think they should have stayed in and helped to improve it they have chosen to leave, democratically. I applaud their efforts to get the best out of the path they have chosen.

 

I am a Brit as well and yes I am sorry for all the bad things the UK has done in the past and probably in the future as well

 

But the UK has also done good things for the world as well, and we should all think there is a balance some where,  I /  or the current UK should not be held responsible  for things that happened hundreds of years ago, its not fair to blame me, for things I have not done.

 

We should also put it in context, the UK was a world leader, it had the power to change things on a huge scale even it was not right, small countries make mistakes as well but you do not see them because its not done on such a scale as the Uk/England did things.

 

@murphaph, you said you have got a German wife, let me ask do you keep reminding her, about what happened in Germany years ago, even thou she was probably not even born then, every time she does something you do not like ?, if not why does a Brit need to be reminded of bad things they did ( not I ) each time they make a mistake now ?

 

I do not want to get into "what did the romans do for us " type list of positive things the UK did as well, but I would like that to be recognized as well.

 

Ok, the US has been the world leader for a while, but it has got its own list of mistakes as well from irak2, Vietnam and not committing to combating climate change. It seems that China will take over world leadership/GDP  sooner or later, lets see what changes then.

 

 

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Murphaph- your wife is German

My “ de facto “ wife is German.

I often have to console Nicole when she feels guilty for stuff she didn’t do or her 19 year old later-to-be father for stuff he wasn’t responsible for.

No one is responsible for the past - except those who were responsible in the past.

NO collective guilt. That is absurd.

 

There is nothing wrong with people being patriotic, though, if it means enjoying the beautiful things in your society and criticising the stuff that needs changing for a better country to live in.

I dislike nationalism and jingoism, though. If it suggests “ we are better than you”.

( Except with jokes!)

 

PS: the Romans were losers! If they had hung around for another 500 or 600 years, they would have resisted the Normans and those buggers wouldn’d have wandered into Ireland and we wouldn’t be having this discussion!🙏🏻😂👍🏼

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I'm not asking anyone alive today to take responsibility for anything done before they were born. I am asking people to understand why things are the way they are today because of the events of the past.

 

My comments were designed to set the record straight about why Ireland has only recently become a net contributor to the EU budget whereas the UK has been since the start.

 

Keith raised that issue and I felt it only fair to respond.

 

Ireland, along with the rest of the empire was quite simply plundered for centuries by the English crown. That takes time to recover from. I'm sorry if that makes some a little uncomfortable but it's the truth. The United Kingdom got to become the richest country in the world by sending gunboats out not because their presence was requested by the locals. In some countries like Cyprus they never left despite being unwanted.

 

That's not a criticism of the modern country or its people but it does explain why Britain was in the comfortable position to be able to be a net contributor to the EEC from the start whereas Ireland which joined on the same day took decades to get to be a net contributor. It's not because the Irish were stupid and lazy. It's because the country was reduced to being GB's breadbasket for hundreds of years and the effects of that take time to reverse. 

 

Peace to my British friends. 

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I'm not disagreeing with Murphaph's whinge about British Empire exploitation.

 

But do need to point out that for decades Ireland was a net receiver from common market/EEC/EU etc and eventually became the Celtic Tiger and rich enough to be a contributor.

 

But when countries like Romania, and Bulgaria came knocking at the EU door, we suddenly went from

 

Tis only right that the rich countries support the poorer countries

to

We don't want dem dirt poor shitholes coming in and needing to be financed. Things are grand the way they are.

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