Brexit: The fallout

12,225 posts in this topic

On 5/6/2020, 10:56:20, hellfire99 said:

Was there a global lockdown due to SARS, MERS and Swine Flu? 

 

No! 

 

Are you still with me, Keleth?  OK, now imagine you are the bloke in charge who pulls the levers and presses the buttons and whatnot. 

 

SARS comes up. What do you do? Close the world? 

 

I see so many holes in this reasoning.   The rate of infection of SARS, MERS and Swine Flu were not even close to the COVID19's one.

 

Then you base your argument on the number of deaths.  But the statistic you have for COVID19 is the number of deaths after closing the world.  What would be the number of deaths if we didn't take massive actions?

 

And because haters gonna hate, at the time the measurements taken to fight those other illnesses were heavily criticized too, specially the ones to fight the Swine Flu that were considered by the haters as extreme and unnecessary.    The Mexicans still remember that, and that's one of the reasons why they didn't believe COVID19 was something serious at the beginning, after the "Swine Flu drama".

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13 hours ago, john_b said:

 

It would be madness not to postpone the brexit deadline given the COVID pandemic.

The stubbornness with which a no-deal results in 2021 will surely kill many more UK businesses.The IMF certainly thinks so:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/coronavirus-brexit-trade-negotiations-imf-uk-boris-johnson-news-a9468201.html

 

I keep thinking back to that royal variety performance: :(

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SN0_yBDqjOA

 

 

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On 5/5/2020, 10:51:32, Keleth said:

I wonder if this will make them realise that next time shutting down instantly and doing proper testing and tracking is a lot less damaging than leaving it a couple of weeks and seeing how things go before introducing some semi lockdown.

 

43 minutes ago, Krieg said:

I see so many holes in this reasoning.   The rate of infection of SARS, MERS and Swine Flu were not even close to the COVID19's one.

 

Then you base your argument on the number of deaths.  But the statistic you have for COVID19 is the number of deaths after closing the world.  What would be the number of deaths if we didn't take massive actions?

 

And because haters gonna hate, at the time the measurements taken to fight those other illnesses were heavily criticized too, specially the ones to fight the Swine Flu that were considered by the haters as extreme and unnecessary.    The Mexicans still remember that, and that's one of the reasons why they didn't believe COVID19 was something serious at the beginning, after the "Swine Flu drama".

 

You've missed the point I was making, Krieg. 

 

I was replying to Keleth's idea of 'shutting down instantly next time'. 

 

That is a very easy thing to say but what does it actually mean?   

 

Suppose an outbreak of a new virus occurs.  Something we have not seen before. Talk me through what you would do because Keleth seems to be saying he would recommend shutting everything down even though we don't fully understand how dangerous or contagious it is.

 

Do you err on the side of caution and close down the global economy with all the far reaching economic and social effects but save lives, if indeed the virus was gonna be the next 'big one', or do you throw caution to the wind because you don't think it will be the 'big one' and can accept a certain number of deaths, and not damage the economy, and hope to fuck you are right?

 

Those are the real decisions that people have to make.  

 

Toytown gobshites have it easy, though. 

 

They have the benefit of hindsight and are not decision makers. 

 

1 hour ago, Krieg said:

... haters gonna hate, ... the haters ... 

 

What do you mean by haters? 

 

41 minutes ago, dom said:

 

It would be madness not to postpone the brexit deadline given the COVID pandemic.

The stubbornness with which a no-deal results in 2021 will surely kill many more UK businesses.The IMF certainly thinks so:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/coronavirus-brexit-trade-negotiations-imf-uk-boris-johnson-news-a9468201.html

 

Disagree. Don't extend the deadline as that will guarantee more uncertainty. 

 

As the article says, 

 

Quote

Boris Johnson's official spokesman said: "Extending the transition would simply prolong the negotiations, prolong business uncertainty and delay the moment we control our borders. It would keep us bound by EU legislation at a moment when we need legislative flexibility to respond to coronavirus."

 

 

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1 hour ago, hellfire99 said:

Disagree. Don't extend the deadline as that will guarantee more uncertainty. 

 

Agreed, but a shotgun no-deal brexit will do UK industry no favours.

 

 

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If I get pushed out of a plane, I would rather be uncertain if my parachute will work than certain it won't.

 

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49 minutes ago, dom said:

Agreed, but a shotgun no-deal brexit will do UK industry no favours.

 

So extend the deadline and hope that at some undefined point in the future they can get back together again and negotiate a deal even though the current negotiations were looking fruitless?  

 

It's just more kicking the problem down the road. 

 

8 minutes ago, pappnase said:

If I get pushed out of a plane, I would rather be uncertain if my parachute will work than certain it won't.

 

Mate, stop trying to be clever with your stupid anecdotes. 

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1 hour ago, dom said:

 

Agreed, but a shotgun no-deal brexit will do UK industry no favours.

 

 

 

Corona virus aside, that looks like what it has come to anyway.

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59 minutes ago, hellfire99 said:

 

Mate, stop trying to be clever with your stupid anecdotes. 

 

That's a metaphor. 

 

 

AgreeableWhiteBunny-small.gif

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On 5.5.2020, 23:36:54, hellfire99 said:

As for taking up resources, you may have seen that the NHS was not overwhelmed with COVID 19 cases. They had and still have capacity in the system. 

 

Not arguing at all about this, but interested in the source. I have heard such varying tales, it would be good to have something more definite.

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10 hours ago, hellfire99 said:

ppose an outbreak of a new virus occurs.  Something we have not seen before. Talk me through what you would do because Keleth seems to be saying he would recommend shutting everything down even though we don't fully understand how dangerous or contagious it is.

When you`ve seen how contagious it is in other countries then you know how contagious it is.

By the begining of March every region of Italy had a Corona case.The first case in Italy was the 31st January.

The UK when they imposed a lockdown knew how contagious it was yet waited 3 weeks after the first documented transmission of it.

Obviously the first country to have a case is not going  to know how contagious or deadly it is but they soon find out.

 

 

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On 5/7/2020, 10:34:12, Keleth said:

The UK when they imposed a lockdown knew how contagious it was yet waited 3 weeks after the first documented transmission of it.

Obviously the first country to have a case is not going  to know how contagious or deadly it is but they soon find out.

 

I read that the delay was in-part due to Boris' conviction that you cannot enforce such a restriction of movement on the british people.

Funny that, since with brexit, restriction of movement seemed to be the top priority!

 

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35 minutes ago, dom said:

 

I read that the delay was in-part due to Boris' conviction that you cannot enforce such a restriction of movement on the british people.

Funny that, since with brexit, restriction of movement seemed to be the top priority!

 

Boris probably thought that it couldn't be enforced because we are in a Brexit transition year. (Even though  a whole string of Schengen countries have blocked freedom of movement!).  Just wish Boris would have a change of heart and allow UK citizens to keep the same freedoms as other Europeans take for granted.

You can see now in Germany how freedom of movement is seen as part of everyone's way of life.  

Probably would be blocked anyway by the hardline nutters he has appointed to cabinet eg Raab, Rees-Mogg and Priti Patel, to name but some. 

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6 hours ago, dom said:

 

I read that the delay was in-part due to Boris' conviction that you cannot enforce such a restriction of movement on the british people.

Funny that, since with brexit, restriction of movement seemed to be the top priority!

 

Interesting that they couldn't find enough unemployed in the UK willing  to work on fruit and vegetable picking assignments and had to fly in loads of Romanians to do the work instead,....in the middle of a pandemic. Then there are all these European and overseas doctors and nurses working in the NHS saving lives, and they still have to pay a hefty supplement to the NHS for their own treatment.

 

It's a waste of taxpayer's money keeping Shitti Patel alive.

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16 minutes ago, Keefy said:

Interesting that they couldn't find enough unemployed in the UK willing  to work on fruit and vegetable picking assignments and had to fly in loads of Romanians to do the work instead,...in the middle of a pandemic. Then there are all these European and overseas doctors and nurses working in the NHS saving lives, and they still have to pay a hefty supplement to the NHS for their own treatment.

 

It's a waste of taxpayer's money keeping Shitti Patel alive.

 

The Brexiteers told us that these European workers were denying British workers the chance of work. The British workers were not given the chance of proper training. As I said at the time, can't wait for all the new courses on Applied Strawberry Picking Techniques or Advanced Coffee Shop Management Theory. 

 

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3 hours ago, alexunterwegs said:

 or Advanced Coffee Shop Management Theory.

 

Theory is good - you don't have to actually do or prove anything  :)

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16 hours ago, alexunterwegs said:

Probably would be blocked anyway by the hardline nutters he has appointed to cabinet eg Raab, Rees-Mogg and Priti Patel, to name but some. 
 

Raab is hardly a 'hardliner', he's merely Bozo's 'Archie Andrews' (google him)

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Just remember, all we have to do is stay alert, you know, be aware.
It's just a virus, ok, it's a genius and most likely an expert in a Chinese form of Ninjitsu and can be waiting for you in every single nook and cranny you walk past.

Just be careful and stay alert, if you see it, avoid it...

(and, if you did catch a bomb during the blitz, you wouldn't have been a burden on the health service)..

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