Brexit: The fallout

13,682 posts in this topic

3 hours ago, Keleth said:

Brexit was not the will of the people it was the will of just over 34% of eligible voters.

 

You (and I) lost, get over it.  52% vs 48%, you can cry about it all you want but your side lost, claiming it was only 34% is wrong and you know it.

 

3 hours ago, Keleth said:

Please then show me the difference between the Torys now and the Torys under Thatcher ?

 

Come on, get a grip, I know you have a massive chip on your shoulder because of what happened 40 years ago but the times and the parties have moved on.  Which pits do you think Boris is going to close.  Or while we are at it, which pits do you think anyone else is going to reopen if they get elected?  None.  Thats all in the past we live in a different world with different priorities, policies and priorities.

 

The Tories are now the party that speaks for the working classes, Labour are the middle classes and the libdems are the protest party.  Get over it.

 

 

 

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34 minutes ago, zwiebelfisch said:

The Tories are now the party that speaks for the working classes, Labour are the middle classes and the libdems are the protest party.  Get over it.

 

Agreed. This is "Brexit: The fallout" whether people like it or not. 

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4 hours ago, zwiebelfisch said:

 

You (and I) lost, get over it.  52% vs 48%, you can cry about it all you want but your side lost, claiming it was only 34% is wrong and you know it.

 

I`m over it and as I`ve said before it is not going to affect me any more than it is going to affect anyone else in the EU.

The only thing I could lose through it is my UK citizenship and as I haven`t been back in 3 years and have nothing to go back for then I really don`t care about that.

It was 34% of eligible voters who voted yes,52% of people who could be bothered to vote voted yes.

34% of eligible voters (something like 25% of population) is not the will of the people.

4 hours ago, zwiebelfisch said:

Come on, get a grip, I know you have a massive chip on your shoulder because of what happened 40 years ago but the times and the parties have moved on.  Which pits do you think Boris is going to close.  Or while we are at it, which pits do you think anyone else is going to reopen if they get elected?  None.  Thats all in the past we live in a different world with different priorities, policies and priorities.

Show me something then that has happened under the Torys in the last 40 years that should make me believe they have changed for the better ?

 

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3 minutes ago, Keleth said:

Show me something then that has happened under the Torys in the last 40 years that should make me believe they have changed for the better ?

 

 

Erm.... How long have I got?

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And what have the Tories done for us?

Stitched us up.

Apart from that what have the Tories done for us?

Gave us two massive recessions through deregulating everything.

Yeh apart from that, just what have the Tories done for us?

Deregulated employment law so that a lot of us are on shitty employment contracts, watered down our employment rights.

Yeh yeh, so apart from being stitched, shitty employment rights, sold off the family silver, deregulated everything and 2 massive recessions, just what have the Tories given us?

Oh well if you put it like that, nothing for us but loads for the Americans and Chinese.

 

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5 minutes ago, French bean said:

Erm... How long have I got?

I don`t know how old you are but you could well be pushing up daisies before you get an answer.

 

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19 hours ago, zwiebelfisch said:

 

You are thinking of labour, but he will be out soon.

 

 

Leave it out, current Tory policies wouldnt have been out of place in the labour party pre Corbyn.  In many ways we have a reversal https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-50930272 of Nu Labour where Blair turned the Labour party into a Tory clone, we now have red conservatism with Boris following center left policies. 

 

 

No they didnt.  They voted for Brexit and were let down by "their party" who had abandoned them for the Islington set and voted for the only party that listened to them.

Another issue..the infighting in the Labour camp..

 

 

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On 12/28/2019, 4:14:12, Kommentarlos said:

The focus should be on long term regional innovation, investment and wealth generation not short term wealth redistribution  (as aknowledged by Mr Cummings above) that can simply be taken away again as quickly as it is offered. 

 

At the moment I am mainly seeing gimmicks.  Which sadly makes the situation ripe for politcal satire and little else.  

 

As the article I linked stated: 

 

Quote

“We still need to be fiscally prudent. The truth is that if you spend one pound in one area that is a pound you don’t have to spend somewhere else.”

 

“It would be daft not to incorporate models of wellbeing into this,” he said. “A traditional cost-benefit analysis merely looks at what constitutes an economic gain without examining the effect of that gain on different groups of people.

 

“It means it is far harder to justify an infrastructure project that would link up northern towns and cities than it would be to justify a similar project in the south of the country.”

Lord O’Neill of Gatley, a former Treasury minister who is now vice-chairman of the Northern Powerhouse Partnership, said he had long believed that the present system “does not make any sense”. “By definition, it adds to the attraction of projects in heavily populated, economically vibrant areas — usually London,” he added.

 

You have to start somewhere and this is the start of regional investment. For too long the old spending rules have skewed spending and favored the South. Investments in infrastructure will benefit areas outside of London.  Wealth distribution will lead to regional innovation and wealth creation. 

 

This is not a gimmick. 

 

On 12/28/2019, 6:35:33, Keleth said:

Please then show me the difference between the Torys now and the Torys under Thatcher ?

I mean what they`ve delivered not what they promise because until we see them enacted give me 1 good reason why we should believe them.

The old saying is that a leopard doesn`t change its spots.

 

How the fuck am I supposed to answer that question?  You seriously want a synopsis of what has happened in the last 40 years or so, taking into account geopolitical changes, demographic changes, technological changes, changes of government, etc, etc, etc.

 

Why don't you try answering it because your insinuation seems to be that nothing has changed and all promises were empty promises.  

 

Fair enough, be wary, cynical, whatever, but your modus operandi, automatically voting along party lines because that's the way you've always done it is ridiculous. 

 

The world has moved on since Thatcher but you haven't. 

 

On 12/28/2019, 7:22:48, Keleth said:

Nice to see like all parties the Torys still believe in giving honours to their devotees and people who keep quiet for them.

IDS the man who invented Universal Credit and Alison Saunders the woman responsible for wrecking many lives.

 

Agreed. And while we are on the subject, it looks like the honours list was drawn up by PM May and not my idol, PM Johnson. 

 

And just while we are talking about gongs, I was delighted to see that John Bercow failed to make the grade for one. 

 

The first speaker in 230 years not to be offered peerage after resigning.

 

ber.JPG.f4fe1a99af3b55bbee0df7a4eebb4de6

 

He must be fucking fuming! 

 

Haha, hilarious! 

 

On 12/28/2019, 9:59:28, zwiebelfisch said:

You (and I) lost, get over it.  52% vs 48%, you can cry about it all you want but your side lost, claiming it was only 34% is wrong and you know it.

 

Come on, get a grip, I know you have a massive chip on your shoulder because of what happened 40 years ago but the times and the parties have moved on.  Which pits do you think Boris is going to close.  Or while we are at it, which pits do you think anyone else is going to reopen if they get elected?  None.  Thats all in the past we live in a different world with different priorities, policies and priorities.

 

The Tories are now the party that speaks for the working classes, Labour are the middle classes and the libdems are the protest party.  Get over it.

 

Amen! 

 

20 hours ago, Keleth said:

I`m over it and as I`ve said before it is not going to affect me any more than it is going to affect anyone else in the EU.

The only thing I could lose through it is my UK citizenship and as I haven`t been back in 3 years and have nothing to go back for then I really don`t care about that.

 

You are clearly not over it. 

 

And can you point me to anything that substantiates your claim about losing UK citizenship for not going back for 3 years?

 

That is the most ridiculous horseshit, mate.

 

Well done!

 

20 hours ago, French bean said:

And what have the Tories done for us?

Stitched us up.

Apart from that what have the Tories done for us?

Gave us two massive recessions through deregulating everything.

Yeh apart from that, just what have the Tories done for us?

Deregulated employment law so that a lot of us are on shitty employment contracts, watered down our employment rights.

Yeh yeh, so apart from being stitched, shitty employment rights, sold off the family silver, deregulated everything and 2 massive recessions, just what have the Tories given us?

Oh well if you put it like that, nothing for us but loads for the Americans and Chinese.

 

 

Pfffft!   Switch on, mate! 

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21 hours ago, john g. said:

Another issue..the infighting in the Labour camp..

 

In 5 years time, you will be hard pressed to find anyone who admits voting for that commie twat, Corbyn and his magic money tree.

 

Just as no one will admit to being a remoaner when the UK prospers outside of the EU. 

 

EM65_J9X0AA5wSL.jpg.487a7c0df6395d5513f1

 

Bit early, but cheers!  :lol:

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34 minutes ago, hellfire99 said:

How the fuck am I supposed to answer that question?  You seriously want a synopsis of what has happened in the last 40 years or so, taking into account geopolitical changes, demographic changes, technological changes, changes of government, etc, etc, etc.

Yes.Because you seem to think we should trust the Torys now so just explain why we should.

What is the difference between them now and when Thatcher was the leader.

I can say that Labour have gone way to the loony left,have become anti semitic at the core of the party and are being driven by Momentum where no straying from the left is allowed.

That wasn`t hard for me to show how Labour has changed.They`ve changed for the worse but apparently the Torys have changed for the better so it should be even easier for you.

34 minutes ago, hellfire99 said:

And can you point me to anything that substantiates your claim about losing UK citizenship for not going back for 3 years?

 

That is the most ridiculous horseshit, mate.

 

Well done!

You are right that is absolute horseshit.

Strangely enough that is what I have said... ok let me break the quote down for you..

22 hours ago, Keleth said:

The only thing I could lose through it is my UK citizenship and as I haven`t been back in 3 years

Ok that and should give you a clue.

If it was because and not and then you would have a point.

Nowhere do I say lose citizenship because I haven`t been back in 3 years ot merely states I haven`t been back so it doesn`t worry me if I lose my citizenship.

Like many of us I have dual citizenship and because of Brexit I may have to choose to give up 1 of them.

34 minutes ago, hellfire99 said:

Pfffft!   Switch on, mate!

But you can`t even say what the Torys have done for us at least he`s actually stating facts you`re just giving it pfft and memes.

34 minutes ago, hellfire99 said:

Fair enough, be wary, cynical, whatever, but your modus operandi, automatically voting along party lines because that's the way you've always done it is ridiculous. 

 

And again you didn``t actually read and understand the quote.

With FPTP you have basically 2 parties in the UK you can vote for.That`s it.There for me has never been any choice but Labour because the only other vote is Tory.

However as I stated there is no way I would have voted Labour this time but sadly you`re then left with just shit choices.

 

As you didn`t make a comeback about Brexit I presume you`re happy to admit that it was them who screwed it up from the start ?

 

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'However as I stated there is no way I would have voted Labour this time but sadly you`re then left with just shit choices.'

 

Oh, you poor limey. Actually you have three choices. None of them is a choice too.

It is not much better in most other countries.

 

Just make sure you keep you Kraut certification, so when Frau Merkel needs more bodies to keep her Obama promises to fight the Ruskies, she has something of offer. Cockney/English is ok too.:lol:

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3 hours ago, Keleth said:

Yes.Because you seem to think we should trust the Torys now so just explain why we should.

What is the difference between them now and when Thatcher was the leader.

I can say that Labour have gone way to the loony left,have become anti semitic at the core of the party and are being driven by Momentum where no straying from the left is allowed.

That wasn`t hard for me to show how Labour has changed.They`ve changed for the worse but apparently the Torys have changed for the better so it should be even easier for you.

 

 

Mate, I understand your stance.  Conservatives = Thatcher.  That will never change with you.  Your response is Pavlovian. Just mention the Tories and you start frothing at the mouth saying, "Thatcher". 

 

What has changed, you ask?  Well Thatcher said there is no such thing as society and David Cameron was after a Big Society.  So the ideology has changed within the party. 

 

Section 28 was introduced by Thatcher's government and in 2015 or when ever it was same sex marriages were allowed. It's now a common occurrence. 

 

Like i said, 

 

3 hours ago, hellfire99 said:

How the fuck am I supposed to answer that question?  You seriously want a synopsis of what has happened in the last 40 years or so, taking into account geopolitical changes, demographic changes, technological changes, changes of government, etc, etc, etc.

 

The world has moved on since Thatcher but you haven't. 

 

If you think the Tories haven't changed since Thatcher you are basically saying that your mindset is stuck in the 80s or 90.  And to be honest, I think you are. Because loads has changed for the better. 

 

3 hours ago, Keleth said:

You are right that is absolute horseshit.

Strangely enough that is what I have said... ok let me break the quote down for you..

Ok that and should give you a clue.

If it was because and not and then you would have a point.

Nowhere do I say lose citizenship because I haven`t been back in 3 years ot merely states I haven`t been back so it doesn`t worry me if I lose my citizenship.

Like many of us I have dual citizenship and because of Brexit I may have to choose to give up 1 of them.

 

My bad. Apologies.  But why might you have to give one up?  What has been said?  That's right, nothing. You are simply being a drama queen. 

 

3 hours ago, Keleth said:

But you can`t even say what the Torys have done for us at least he`s actually stating facts you`re just giving it pfft and memes.

 

Erm... no, he's not.  He's following your lead and making sweeping statements and failing to take into account the context in which these historical events took place. Like I say, you guys exhibit Pavlovian tendencies. 

 

3 hours ago, Keleth said:

With FPTP you have basically 2 parties in the UK you can vote for.That`s it.There for me has never been any choice but Labour because the only other vote is Tory.

However as I stated there is no way I would have voted Labour this time but sadly you`re then left with just shit choices.

 

Nonsense, you have a range of parties to vote for. It's just that most of them are fucking useless and can't be trusted. My mate Boris, who is my idol, is going to do wonders for the UK. We can come back to this post in a few years and I will say, "I told you so!".  :D

 

16 minutes ago, gaberlunzi said:

Oh, you poor limey. Actually you have three choices. None of them is a choice too.

It is not much better in most other countries.

 

Just make sure you keep you Kraut certification, so when Frau Merkel needs more bodies to keep her Obama promises to fight the Ruskies, she has something of offer. Cockney/English is ok too.:lol:

 

But other countries didn't have <cover your eyes Keleth>, Thatcher! 

 

Froth, froth! :lol:

 

3 hours ago, Keleth said:

As you didn`t make a comeback about Brexit I presume you`re happy to admit that it was them who screwed it up from the start ?

 

I'll have to come back and answer this later. But just briefly, you are doing it again. You are simplifying a very complex argument / process and it just makes you look simple. 

 

Like, I said, I'll be back!  

 

And now for a meme.  I know @Wulfrun like them. 

 

EM8MJzvWwAAijVz.jpg.91b0a0f507209d61edf6

 

:D

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36 minutes ago, hellfire99 said:

What has changed, you ask?  Well Thatcher said there is no such thing as society and David Cameron was after a Big Society.  So the ideology has changed within the party.

Cameron was a mealy mouthed invertebrate, the archetypal salesman. He said what he thought people would like to hear but never followed it through with action.

I despised Thatcher probably just as much as Keleth but I have to give her credit, she did what she said she was going to do. You can't seriously mention Thatcher and Cameron in the same senrtence.

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On 12/28/2019, 6:35:33, Keleth said:

Please then show me the difference between the Torys now and the Torys under Thatcher ?

 

2 minutes ago, French bean said:

You can't seriously mention Thatcher and Cameron in the same senrtence.

 

I'm afraid I had to old bean. 

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1 hour ago, hellfire99 said:

If you think the Tories haven't changed since Thatcher you are basically saying that your mindset is stuck in the 80s or 90.  And to be honest, I think you are. Because loads has changed for the better. 

Yet you can only think of 1 thing.

If it`s that much different you shouldn`t need to think about it etc it would pop into your head.

1 hour ago, hellfire99 said:

But why might you have to give one up?  What has been said?  That's right, nothing. You are simply being a drama queen. 

Because until now Germany has allowed dual citizenship with EU countries but not non EU countries.

They have passed a law (or written one) that after Brexit UK citizens will be able to keep theirs,however this is dependent on the deal and would not happen in the case of a no deal Brexit.

1 hour ago, hellfire99 said:

If you think the Tories haven't changed since Thatcher you are basically saying that your mindset is stuck in the 80s or 90.  And to be honest, I think you are. Because loads has changed for the better. 

 

Yet you keep struggling to actually say what that loads is.

1 hour ago, hellfire99 said:

I'll have to come back and answer this later. But just briefly, you are doing it again. You are simplifying a very complex argument / process and it just makes you look simple.

The Torys introduced the referendum.

That they (Torys)couldn`t be arsed to do any prep in case they lost is no ones fault but the Torys.

They invoked Article 51 while having no plan.Again no ones fault but the Torys.

May came up with a deal that was hardly any different from staying in the EU.Again no ones fault but the Torys.

Even such a rabid fan of the Torys as you surely cannot blame anyone but them for the utter clusterfuck they made of it.

2 hours ago, hellfire99 said:

Erm... no, he's not.  He's following your lead and making sweeping statements and failing to take into account the context in which these historical events took place. Like I say, you guys exhibit Pavlovian tendencies. 

Let me guess Austerity etc was all the EUs fault and if the UK hadn`t been under that dictatorship then it would have all been coming up roses in the UK ?

 

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3 hours ago, Keleth said:

Yet you can only think of 1 thing.

 

6 hours ago, hellfire99 said:

What has changed, you ask?  

 

1. Well Thatcher said there is no such thing as society and David Cameron was after a Big Society.  So the ideology has changed within the party. 

 

2. Section 28 was introduced by Thatcher's government and in 2015 or when ever it was same sex marriages were allowed. It's now a common occurrence. 

 

Learn to count dimwit. There were two points. And there are numerous points.

 

You could also educate yourself and find out about what has changed in the last 40 years, but you are a typical OAP abroad and prefer to bump your gums.  If you were really interested in educating yourself, which you are not, you would do your own homework instead of asking The Right Honourable Hf99 to educate you! 

 

Switch on you old fart! The world has changed! 

 

3 hours ago, Keleth said:

Because until now Germany has allowed dual citizenship with EU countries but not non EU countries.

They have passed a law (or written one) that after Brexit UK citizens will be able to keep theirs,however this is dependent on the deal and would not happen in the case of a no deal Brexit.

 

Ah! So they are going to repeal this law then, and it will be retrospective?

 

They are gonna steal your Citizenship!

 

OMG!

 

Can you point me to any debates over this matter. 

 

Cookoo, cuckoo!

 

Stop wetting your knickers and get back to reality. Honestly, you are micey as fuck! 

 

3 hours ago, Keleth said:

The Torys introduced the referendum.

That they (Torys)couldn`t be arsed to do any prep in case they lost is no ones fault but the Torys.

They invoked Article 51 while having no plan.Again no ones fault but the Torys.

May came up with a deal that was hardly any different from staying in the EU.Again no ones fault but the Torys.

Even such a rabid fan of the Torys as you surely cannot blame anyone but them for the utter clusterfuck they made of it.

 

As we now know, for you there is only Blue or Red. Conservative or Labour. Party lines. Old farts voting as they have always voted.  

 

Wake up man!! 

 

This post shows me that you have nil understanding of what has happened over the last 3.5 years / 40 years with various Conservative leaders or British politics in general. 

 

Well done, stupid! 

 

Say hi to the 1970s for me, Keleth! 

 

3 hours ago, Keleth said:

Let me guess Austerity etc was all the EUs fault and if the UK hadn`t been under that dictatorship then it would have all been coming up roses in the UK ?

 

Please refer to the previous Labour government's track record, the financial crisis of 2008 and most importantly, reality. 

 

My god, you are stupid! 

 

Have a nice evening, though.  

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I sense, I sense a presence on the board I have not felt for a long time. 
It is like a mind cried out for attention, was silenced and then came back.
I sense the words 'look at me, look at me, look at me'..

Let me guess, lots of comments but twisting like Chubby Checker when asked for answers or any kind of substance?

Pseudo insults and a tone that comes form being left alone to much as a child?
I serious need for attention and validation in the 'all attention is good' way?
Away to phrase anything that just says 'crying out for love'?

Although I never ever thought said person would come back at this late stage in the game (honest, really, I mean that, ok, no I don't). Somewhere in the world, a bridge is being repaired, think of it as a winter holiday

Let me know when we are as far as 'duplicate accounts' and 'i'm the victim', may be worth a look. 

As for anyone living over here who supported Bexit and supports the Tories now, if the outcome is that you have to leave or have to jump through hoops to stay, then you have no sympathy from me.
.

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On 12/23/2019, 2:50:28, Keleth said:

 

 

On 12/27/2019, 5:41:14, Keleth said:

...been responsible for the rise of food banks,who says people use food banks because they can't manage their finances,have brought the NHS to it`s lowest peak ever,who promoted austerity even while people were suffering (sometimes dying) because of it while they kept their snouts in the trough,the same party whose leader is a racist (or at least someone who doesn't think there's anything wrong in making racist remarks),the same party who put forward the referendum for Brexit while having absolutely no fucking clue what to do afterwards leading to 3 years where fuck all got done because of the persistent arguing over Brexit,family credit and the list could go on and on.

Hope you feel proud to share in the misery the Tories have forced on the UK over the years.

 

There is an interesting story in the Guardian this morning.  Yes, the Guardian, so it must be true. 

 

EU accused of seeking to cut funds for poor in post-Brexit cost savings

 

Long story short, the EU are planning to drop a dedicated fund for the EU's poorest people while at the same time increasing spending on defense. 

 

Quote

Jacques Vandenschrik, the president of the European Food Banks Federation, said the EU executive’s proposed spending plans for the next seven years posed a risk not only to the most vulnerable but to the stability of wider society.

 

Yes, that's right, the president of the European Food Banks Federation. 

 

Quote

Under the proposed 2021-27 budget there would be no such dedicated fund but member states would be asked to devote a minimum of €2bn in total to food and basic material assistance. The commission has said it hopes member states will allocate twice that minimum amount – but there would not be any obligation.

 

The commission hopes that member states allocate the money??? 

 

Quote

The commission wants to spend €13bn on a European defence fund to coordinate research and investment after calls from the French president, Emmanuel Macron, for greater EU military independence from the US. 

 

Why don't the poorest of the EU's poor simply join the coming EU army. They would at least be guaranteed rations. 

 

Funny that the EU are Empire building on the backs of the poorest citizens. 

 

I wonder if anyone here cares? 

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12 hours ago, hellfire99 said:

Stop wetting your knickers and get back to reality. Honestly, you are micey as fuck! 

 

Apocalyptiholism - addicted to the idea that the world is going to end is endemic to this thread.    Is @murphaph in a bunker somewhere?    

12 hours ago, hellfire99 said:

Please refer to the previous Labour government's track record, the financial crisis of 2008 and most importantly, reality. 

 

Financial crisis has not been settled yet and not only in the UK.   With time, there is still a lot of room for revisionism.   

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