Brexit: The fallout

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11 hours ago, Clive2677 said:

 

The prime purpose of the founders of the European Union was “never again”. 

 

Yet somehow the Brexiteers managed to turn all that on its head, making trade wars, followed by actual war, no longer completely unimaginable”

 

Brexiters fake patriotism and refusal to learn the history lessons of European great wars are at the root of Brexit delusional nostalgia. Those who actually experienced the war supported the EU as a peace project.  

 

Let us maintain this, sometimes faulty but strong, unity.    It is no more faulty than any other governing body and is certainly better than most. 

Proof is in the pudding, apart from the break up of Yugoslavia in the '90's, which was a localised conflict, Europe probably has had its longest period of peace for 100's of years.

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On 08/11/2019, 17:46:35, alexunterwegs said:

 

Johnson also says that the people of Nortehrn Ireland would be getting a "great deal" with unfettered access to the Single Market and freedom of movement. 

So, if its such a great deal, why can't the rest of the UK have direct access to the Single Market and freedom of movement?

 

  https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-50344110#comment_137143376

Johnson lies all the time, NI's access to the Single Market is most likely just another porky...

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Naja, BJs single market for NI isn't quite the full blown EU Single Market is it? As far as I understand, for NI it is just the market in goods, and not services or free movement of labour as envisioned in the EU. (Free movement of capital never seems to be a problem for the rich. Cynical me)

Strange how every concept BJ touches goes all blurry and confused round the edges ...  

The situation for NI? A bit like the Grand Old Duke of York's army;

And when they were out they were out

And when they were in they were in

But now that they're only halfway in

They are neither out nor in.

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17 hours ago, Clive2677 said:

The prime purpose of the founders of the European Union was “never again”. 

That`s mostly worked but it has turned into a whole lot more than that nowadays

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Since the most prominent politicians of recent times seem to be the biggest jokers, could the biggest jokers become the next generations of prominent politicians?

Interesting to watch David Mitchell express his reverence of the truth...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fT2nYGKyqPw

 

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On 11/10/2019, 10:22:52, French bean said:

Proof is in the pudding, apart from the break up of Yugoslavia in the '90's, which was a localised conflict, Europe probably has had its longest period of peace for 100's of years.

 

The US has been the main stabilizing force even if that involved a bit of coercion.   

 

Nordstream II and the lack of German commitment to NATO should worry Europeans.  When the US pulls back, Europe will go back to doing what it historically  does.  

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3 hours ago, balticus said:

 

The US has been the main stabilizing force even if that involved a bit of coercion.   

 

Nordstream II and the lack of German commitment to NATO should worry Europeans.  When the US pulls back, Europe will go back to doing what it historically  does.  

I don't think there is a lack of German commitment as has been proved by their change in constitution to allow the Bundeswehr to deploy out of the country on international duties including NATO led operations. If anything there is a lack of commitment from the US President not necessarily from the US armed forces.

 

As for Nordstream II, that is a commercial decision as well as political.

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2 hours ago, French bean said:

If anything there is a lack of commitment from the US President not necessarily from the US armed forces.

 

Too right, its about time we had a proper warmonger in the whitehouse, its been ages since they had a really good war.  Maybe the 2020 elections should be based on how many foreigners each president plans to kill with drones?

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7 minutes ago, zwiebelfisch said:

 

Too right, its about time we had a proper warmonger in the whitehouse, its been ages since they had a really good war.  Maybe the 2020 elections should be based on how many foreigners each president plans to kill with drones?

You're missing the point. Donald doesn't want to commit to NATO because he doesn't see any financial return from it. He sees everything as a straight Profit and Loss account. NATO has been an organisation that has PREVENTED war in Europe.

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4 minutes ago, dom said:

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can't see Labour reversing the trend unless some major unexpected event takes place over which Boris cocks up...oh, wait a minute!

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-says-widespread-flooding-is-not-a-national-emergency-a4282771.html

 

 

I think that these simple percentages can be misleading, given how the UK system works.

 

Using a different source for example:

https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/homepage.html

 

Capture.JPG.5be08715b36c8784c799d9449ba0

 

This shows the conservatives having a clear large majority.

 

 

It also shows the greens getting 1 seat while Brexit get none, even though in percentage terms the Brexit party are way ahead.

 

 

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Sorry for being a broken record, but Corbyn is the gift that keeps on giving to the tories. Replace him with damn near anyone (no not diane abbot) and they walk away with a majority.  The fact they have a racist grandad mumbling on about the Jews and dithering over his beloved Brexit that he has to pretend he is against is killing them.

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3 hours ago, zwiebelfisch said:

 

Too right, its about time we had a proper warmonger in the whitehouse, its been ages since they had a really good war.  Maybe the 2020 elections should be based on how many foreigners each president plans to kill with drones?

 

Well they certainly love ISIS, given how heartbroken they were when Baghdadi was killed.

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Those were the days. Iraq, Afghanistan, drones flying everywhere. Bombing weddings. Libya was a bit of a disappointment so I was really looking forward to clinton starting a proper ground war in iran but sadly trump and his domestic focus just didn't have her bloodlust.  Boring!

 

Anyway I'm with french bean, let's get exporting death back on the ballot box next year. 

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