Brexit: The fallout

12,156 posts in this topic

20 minutes ago, fraufruit said:

 

Isn't that what happened when they chose to join the EU?

Actually, they didn‘t ask in a referendum or anything if the population wanted to join the old Common Market. There was a vote later on as to if Britain should stay in and YES won the day.

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5 hours ago, dom said:

 

Priti Patel is English-born to Indian parents. In the EU referendum campaign she launched an appeal to "Save the British Curry" which argued that a post-Brexit immigration system would be fairer to those from outside the EU and ease a shortage of chefs for Indian restaurants in Britain.

https://news.yahoo.com/five-facts-priti-patel-britains-175535716.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9kdWNrZHVja2dvLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAIWnyM4no0naQDusci98F5gX4YoTqWBbkeRm4zS7KMD-vuEhc9DG-IanitXuX3pMSFjzdyrf50GTa8OZO5PotET5_7n9hC3pG9kfel7CaABn52urXAsKqAut9jASCU_djVbi7cXGbBRrlJAly70Vei_UQvQc1GtSlpBeItF8cnHW

 

EU immigrants will be packed-off singing "Curry me home"! :lol:

 

Bring back the Curry On movies!

5 hours ago, dom said:
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1 hour ago, BMurphy said:

I'm not just conservative, I'm also nationalist in the sense that I believe unchecked globalisation is not a good thing - hence my euroscpeticism. I'm also a big fan of democracy and of people and countries being able to decide their own futures. The way people here talk, you'd swear the UK had been an EU member for a thousand years and that elaving it was tantamount to declaring war on everything good in the world.

Like I said I don't have a problem with your opinions. I have a problem with repeating long since debunked stuff about the EU that simply isn't true.

 

I find you a hypocrite for the way you make full use of the freedom of movement you despise. You must admit this is hypocritical behaviour if this is really true.

 

Also I find it odd that as a nationalist from Ireland that you consider Ireland to have already won its independence. Any Irish nationalist I've ever come across would say the "occupied 6" say otherwise ;-)

 

Me personally I have no problem with the current constitutional position of NI.

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6 hours ago, Wulfrun said:

Since Priti Patel's parents were immigrants, shouldn't she suffer the same fate as the Windrush people? /s

She wouldn't be in the country if someone like her had been Home Office minister when her parents arrived. 

You'd think she'd have a little bit of sensitivity for that fact. A classic case of I'm all Right Jack'.

But sadly not an untypical characteristic in many people.  

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@murphaph: The fact that I avail myself of free movement of people while also criticising it is not hypocritical because, unlike many other beneficiaries of free movement, I would have no problem with having to apply for a work permit or visa to live here. After all, why should European foreigners be treated more favourably than others? Many beneficiaries of free movement know that that if they were subject to the same conditions that non-EU immigrants are, they wouldn't have a hope in hell of being allowed in (to whatever country) in the first place. Furthermore, it would be incredibly arrogant and narcissistic of me to proclaim that free movement is great simply because I happen to have benefited from it, while ignoring the obvious flaws, even dangers of the policy. 

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2 hours ago, BMurphy said:

Stuff

We'll agree to disagree. I believe most Europeans value our freedom of movement. I hear the stories of hassle my non-EU colleagues have getting their work permits and thank my lucky stars I'm an EU citizen. 

 

The UK is going to be the odd man out in western Europe. Even non member states will have continued freedom of movement for their people. Only well educated and skilled Brits will be able to live and work in the EU. The "lower classes" will be trapped on their island. They will not experience life in the rest of Europe.

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2 minutes ago, murphaph said:

We'll agree to disagree. I believe most Europeans value our freedom of movement. I hear the stories of hassle my non-EU colleagues have getting their work permits and thank my lucky stars I'm an EU citizen. 

 

The UK is going to be the odd man out in western Europe. Even non member states will have continued freedom of movement for their people. Only well educated and skilled Brits will be able to live and work in the EU. The "lower classes" will be trapped on their island. They will not experience life in the rest of Europe.

 

Completly agree. We are European and many value and want to explore what having that identity means. Just because some people may meet all the criteria for a work permit or visa, why should the European experience be limited to them?  Many come over after college with no work experience and so their chances would be next to zero.  After Brexit,  that group will be at the back of the queue, after checks for no suitable staff have been made amongst 27 other nationalities.

 

The other thing is that freedom of movement is integral to the working and success of the Internal Market.  There is a logic that labour moves to where the jobs are. Where would the German economy be without it?. On its knees.  

 

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42 minutes ago, alexunterwegs said:

We are European and many value and want to explore what having that identity means.

 

are you really, though?

 

I've read and heard first hand so many times the whole sentiment about "brits" vs "the continent" (in social as well as political terms).  I think if more brits felt as you do, brexit would have never occurred to anyone as a sensible solution, let alone would it have passed a popular vote.

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5 minutes ago, lisa13 said:

 

are you really, though?

 

I've read and heard first hand so many times the whole sentiment about "brits" vs "the continent" (in social as well as political terms).  I think if more brits felt as you do, brexit would have never occurred to anyone as a sensible solution, let alone would it have passed a popular vote.

 

I agree as many have never left the island in the same way that many Americans have never traveled outside of their own state.

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3 hours ago, fraufruit said:

 

 

Millions of Brits go on holiday throughout Europe, Fraufruit. I doubt there is anyone under 70 who hasn‘t been to Spain or France etc.

It cannot be compared to the US situation.

My own nieces, nephews  ( have forgotten the English word for their kids!) have even been snorkelling in Egypt and Bali or wherever. They travel. And they are not rich.

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31 minutes ago, lisa13 said:

 

are you really, though?

 

I've read and heard first hand so many times the whole sentiment about "brits" vs "the continent" (in social as well as political terms).  I think if more brits felt as you do, brexit would have never occurred to anyone as a sensible solution, let alone would it have passed a popular vote.

I sometimes wonder how many studied geography at school. That landmass across from Dover is definitely Europe and not Manhattan or somewhere in the mid Pacific! Besides that, Britain's history dates back to the Greeks, Romans, Vikings and Saxons, all part of our shared heritage. 

And politically, surely it makes sense, given the histories of the 19th and 20th centuries, that we work together. But yes, as the saying goes, there are none more bllind than those that will not see. 

 

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44 minutes ago, john g. said:

 

Millions of Brits go on holiday throughout Europe, Fraufruit. I doubt there is anyone under 70 who hasn‘t been to Spain or France etc.

It cannot be compared to the US situation.

My own nieces, nephews  ( have forgotten the English word for their kids!) have even been snorkelling in Egypt and Bali or wherever. They travel. And they are not rich.

 

Yes, many are able to travel on cheap package holidays and some even annually. Driving to France or Spain, however, is the equivalent of me driving from South Carolina to Florida or Louisiana. 

 

But you're right, they left the island.

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I know, fraufruit! I hitchhiked through the US in my non- conformist days??

I really needed „ speed „ to keep me going.

( I think speed was the name of the pill in those days but I have forgotten! )

PS: Las Vegas was a bitch to hitchhike out of! Something to do with not wanting to take someone who could have murdered you for your winnings...

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Nobody ever needed "speed" to keep them going. I also experimented with it when I was young. Luckily never needed or got addicted to it. They probably didn't pick you up because you looked like a speed freak. ^_^

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1 hour ago, john g. said:

My own nieces, nephews  ( have forgotten the English word for their kids!)

Print this out:

 

image.png

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15 hours ago, BMurphy said:

I'm not just conservative, I'm also nationalist in the sense that I believe unchecked globalisation is not a good thing - hence my euroscpeticism. I'm also a big fan of democracy and of people and countries being able to decide their own futures. The way people here talk, you'd swear the UK had been an EU member for a thousand years and that elaving it was tantamount to declaring war on everything good in the world.

 

Nationalism is just another word for Xenophobia and belongs in the dark ages. We shouldn't be looking for ways to separate ourselves and put up walls. We were lucky enough to have been born on the British Isles instead of in the Central African Republic, but it's not something we have earned.

 

The EU has brought the continent together on the back of two world wars. The idea that WWII soldiers would have backed the idea of Brexit is absurd. It is a step backwards, no doubt.

 

As an organisation it is far from perfect but going back to putting up walls and only letting the rich move around is not the solution.

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