Brexit: The fallout

12,243 posts in this topic

8 minutes ago, dstanners said:

Broadly speaking they view the EU as blocking state aid, and limiting the ability of the state to invest/control business. The idea is that once Labour is elected (!) Corbyn would be less restrained in introducing left-wing policies without the EU.

I get that argument. However, a post-Brexit right-wing government can also use the freedom from EU regulations that are intended to ensure a "level playing field" to move the UK in the opposite direction (low tax, low public service). Labour is somehow aware of that by trying to enshrine in UK law that EU workers rights would act as a minimum standards. If Labour does not win the next election they will have lost that gamble big time.

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It is interesting to see where Priti Patel, Home Office minister with responsibility for immigration, fits into this. 

Coming from an immigrant background herself, she will be more than aware of racism in the UK at the time her parents were granted entry to the country.  Yet, she now wishes to impose stringent new immigration rules which probably would have excluded her parents from entering. 

I don't think Priti Patel is racist,  but I do think she is guilty of another sin, hypocrisy, or as it was sometimes called,  "I'm all Right Jack". 

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8 minutes ago, alexunterwegs said:

I do think she is guilty of another sin, hypocrisy, or as it was sometimes called,  "I'm all Right Jack". 

In America, it's called "I got mine, so fuck you".

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49 minutes ago, Chris Marston said:

If Labour does not win the next election they will have lost that gamble big time.

I agree with you. It is a daft argument, but it is the one they seem to believe in. I think Corbyn underestimates how much his deliberate ambiguity on Brexit is seen by the public as a whole, but even traditional labour voters, as exactly the sort of political opportunism/cynicism to which he was (once) seen to be the answer. Scoring better than expected (but importantly, still losing) one election, seems to have given him the belief that he can ignore polls and that a Labour victory is inevitable. To those of us outside his small bubble, he seems WAY off the mark. 

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1 hour ago, dstanners said:

The idea is that once Labour is elected (!) Corbyn would be less restrained in introducing left-wing policies without the EU.

 

That is probably very true.

 

The same way that BoJo & cohorts would be less restrained in introducing their policies without the EU.

 

Its "Pest oder Cholera"!  What a mess.

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1 hour ago, alexunterwegs said:

It is interesting to see where Priti Patel, Home Office minister with responsibility for immigration, fits into this. 

Coming from an immigrant background herself, she will be more than aware of racism in the UK at the time her parents were granted entry to the country.  Yet, she now wishes to impose stringent new immigration rules which probably would have excluded her parents from entering. 

I don't think Priti Patel is racist,  but I do think she is guilty of another sin, hypocrisy, or as it was sometimes called,  "I'm all Right Jack". 

Imposing strict immigration rules is not the same thing as being racist. In fact, by having strict immigration rules, you're likely to prevent a certain amount of racism and xenophobia in the sense that you're giving the public the feeling that the government has control over immigration. And I actually think it's kind of racist of you to suggest that Priti Patel's immigration policy should be influenced by her own ethnic origins. Why should it? In my opinion, there is nothing worse than someone of immigrant origin being in favour of liberal immigration policies just because they dislike the native population so much they want them to be in the minority. I see a lot of this kind of attitude here in Germany.

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2 hours ago, zwiebelfisch said:

 

 

 

 

I only went back a page or two, Im pretty sure there are 500 pages of this... Maybe these guys arent a fair representation of remainers, but honestly, the idea that remain doesnt claim leavers are racist is ludicrous.

I`ve often stated that a great many Brexiteers are racist and I`ve seen nothing on this thread or in the lobbying for Brexit that has shown me otherwise.

Where is all the kickback from the non racist Brexiteers over the Kraut ad or the Farage leave ad etc ?

Funny they have mighty loud voices to condemn parliament or whoever when something goes against them yet in these case tumbleweed.

Does anyone believe that vote leave did not rely on underlying racism to win ?

 

I`ll use that quote again 

"Not all Brexiteers are racist but all racists voted for Brexit"

 

And despite 500 pages or whatever of this thread there is still not one clear reason given as to why Brexit is a good thing.The only 1 we hear again and again is "immigration".

We`ve heard "Security" or "Long term good" but only in those very vague terms nothing actually explicit as to how the EU is harming ordinary people.

Oh we have heard a few just parroting proving lies by Faraga,Jonson or whoever but I don`t think making things up actually counts as a good argument.

 

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25 minutes ago, BMurphy said:

Imposing strict immigration rules

What rules ?

They`ve had 3 years to come up with these new rules and the plan they announced on 1st Sept has now been withdrawn because it is very likely to be illegal.

 

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29 minutes ago, Keleth said:

What rules ?

They`ve had 3 years to come up with these new rules and the plan they announced on 1st Sept has now been withdrawn because it is very likely to be illegal.

 

I was quoting alexunterwegs, who referred to "strict immigration rules".

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1 hour ago, Keleth said:

Where is all the kickback from the non racist Brexiteers over the Kraut ad or the Farage leave ad etc ?

Funny they have mighty loud voices to condemn parliament or whoever when something goes against them yet in these case tumbleweed.

 

Exactly.

 

Quote

Does anyone believe that vote leave did not rely on underlying racism to win ?

 

I think the slogan "take back control" could easily have been interpreted to mean "from foreigners", especially with all the anti-immigration rhetoric from the Leave side.

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58 minutes ago, BMurphy said:

Imposing strict immigration rules is not the same thing as being racist. In fact, by having strict immigration rules, you're likely to prevent a certain amount of racism and xenophobia in the sense that you're giving the public the feeling that the government has control over immigration. And I actually think it's kind of racist of you to suggest that Priti Patel's immigration policy should be influenced by her own ethnic origins. Why should it? In my opinion, there is nothing worse than someone of immigrant origin being in favour of liberal immigration policies just because they dislike the native population so much they want them to be in the minority. I see a lot of this kind of attitude here in Germany.

If you read what I said, I was not accusing Priti Patel of racism, but hypocrisy. 

If you are a foreigner in another country, or even someone with parents who recently arrived, you need to tread with a certain amount of sensitivity. If I am lucky enough to qualify for some kind of residence status here in Germany, it would be a bit hypocritical if I turned around the next day and said I think Germany should be imposing much stricter immigration rules (as long they were not retrospective!)  

Yes, every country needs immigration rules, but by all accounts Patel's were very strict, until she found out they would probably be illegal. I fancy though, she'll have another go, if she gets the chance. 

 

 

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I'll wager those who fired shots at a synagogue and Dönerladen in Halle this afternoon were "proper AfD voting Germans".

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1 hour ago, alexunterwegs said:

If you read what I said, I was not accusing Priti Patel of racism, but hypocrisy. 

If you are a foreigner in another country, or even someone with parents who recently arrived, you need to tread with a certain amount of sensitivity. If I am lucky enough to qualify for some kind of residence status here in Germany, it would be a bit hypocritical if I turned around the next day and said I think Germany should be imposing much stricter immigration rules (as long they were not retrospective!)  

Yes, every country needs immigration rules, but by all accounts Patel's were very strict, until she found out they would probably be illegal. I fancy though, she'll have another go, if she gets the chance. 

 

 

Priti Patel's job is to devise an immigration policy that is in the UK's best interests. Her origins are completely irrelevant. Just because the UK might have had a more liberal immigration policy when her parents arrived does not mean that said liberal immigration policy has to continue for ever, does it? As far as I'm concerned, the more people that arrived in the past, the less can be allowed in the future, unless one wants to completely alter the fabric of society, which of course is what many on the left are trying to do.

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20 minutes ago, murphaph said:

I'll wager those who fired shots at a synagogue and Dönerladen in Halle this afternoon were "proper AfD voting Germans".

And I'll wager that most Antifa thugs and member sof other left-wing extremist groups probably vote for the Greens or Die Linken.

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2 minutes ago, murphaph said:

First they came for...

Ah I see, you're deliberately mixing up immigration control with persecution. You must be living in Germany for a long time!

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10 minutes ago, BMurphy said:

You must be living in Germany for a long time!

 

You must, too.

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Just now, BMurphy said:

Ah I see, you're deliberately mixing up immigration control with persecution. You must be living in Germany for a long time!

 

You do know about Windrush?  That was immigration control.  The "hostile environment".  Deport first and ask questions second?

 

 

operation vacan.JPG

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16 minutes ago, BMurphy said:

And I'll wager that most Antifa thugs and member sof other left-wing extremist groups probably vote for the Greens or Die Linken.

 

Maybe, however they distanced themselves from the Antifa and Antideutschen long time ago.   Even the SPD did.   The AfD will not distance themselves from the NS movement because they know their core supporters have plenty of closet NS.

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