Brexit: The fallout

11,120 posts in this topic

4 minutes ago, dj_jay_smith said:

 

 

 

 

Well I assume that you are not aware, but just before the vote a Brexiter posted a petition which said that they vote should not stand and should be held again unless there was a clear majority of 60% for one side with a minimum turnout  of 75%.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-petition-second-eu-referendum-latest-news-vote-leave-a7104076.html

 

 

This was then take over by the remainers, signed by > 4m (not sure of final number), and rejected by parliament, so it kind of came back to haunt him that as a Brexiter the remainers took it over!

Fair point. I suppose that's what makes Brexit so contentious: the close result.

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33 minutes ago, BMurphy said:

And if the majority of the people voted to Leave again (either with or without a deal), do you think the Remain side would accept the result? Not a chance. Many on the Remain side are self-entitled snobs who despise the "lower classes" for having the audacity to want to get out of the EU.

Know a lot of Remainers do you? Just which lower classes are you talking about? Most traditional working class people are now doing quite well for themselves and enjoying middle class wages and standards. Unfortunately there is a new under class mainly of poorly educated people stuck in poor housing with very little hope for the future.

 

Look at the Demographics, again a lot of those voted to leave were elderly and poorly educated people in low skilled jobs or poor areas.

 

A lot of people just want to get on with things and better themselves hence the number of kids from 'working class' backgrounds that are going to University and feel betrayed by the Brexit vote.

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29 minutes ago, White Rose of Yorkshire said:

I have often wondered if the Brexiters would have called for another referendum if the remainers had won. 

I'm pretty sure that the tories' masters would have forced a rerun in that event... and screw demacracy!

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Ultimately the whole fiasco goes back to the Dave the invertebrate comedian calling a referendum with a straight winner takes all. No one does that, there's always been a basic rule of 66% majority to change a major policy. What's even worse is the Invertebrate wanted to change Union laws so that strikes couldn't be called unless there was a minimum of 50% Union members voting and minimum 40% in favour which as I read it means 80% of those who voted must be in favour. Yet he goes for a straight winner takes all. You can tell he and BoJo went to the same school and if they had gone to a state school they would both be looking for a new job every few months.

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44 minutes ago, White Rose of Yorkshire said:

I have often wondered if the Brexiters would have called for another referendum if the remainers had won. 

 

Maybe if you read the posts right above yours, your curiosity would be satisfied. (Spoiler alert: they were already calling for a repeat referendum in case of a narrow loss.)

 

23 hours ago, El Jeffo said:

 

Funny you should mention that, because it's exactly what Mr. Ludicrous Frogface demanded just before the referendum, when it was expected that Remain would win narrowly.

 

 

That's right - a 52-48 referendum in favor of remain would inevitably trigger a second referendum, while the same result in favor of leaving turned out to be the unstoppable "will of the people".

 

Read all about the ludicrousness here.

 

19 hours ago, john_b said:

 

Yeah, right. Your man Dominic Cummings shared some views on the subject, as it happens.

 

https://www.markpack.org.uk/150719/dominic-cummings-second-referendum/

 

 

 

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BMurphy I'm afraid you are not at all up to speed on what the leave campaign publicly stated right before the referendum. Farage famously stated that a 52/48 (remain) result would mean the issue was not over by a long way. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

 

Do you personally dislike the EU?

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3 hours ago, BMurphy said:

Many on the Remain side are self-entitled snobs who despise the "lower classes" for having the audacity to want to get out of the EU.

Was going to call this bollocks but it`s not really only sort of.

Many of my friends who are still in England are ok with pulling out of the EU or ok with staying in.However they are all against leaving without a deal.Maybe because they`re intelligent enough to realise they will be the ones to suffer in that case and it won`t be the main men behind a no deal that suffer.Whereas with a deal they think they won`t suffer and will maybe better off and as usual the rich will just get richer.

These are working class people,unemployed,bus drivers,factory workers,barmaids and even a couple of dock workers (unbelievably that does exist still).

It seems to me that basically the working class do not care one way or the other as long as they are not screwed over yet again.

Maybe lower classes voted leave because of the outrageous lies and promises leave made to them (I think this is why Remain would win now if there was another vote).

Also anyone who hero worships Jonson etc because of their EU position automatically loses their lower class status in my eyes.

 

Funnily enough you do realise that the whole referendum thing was called by Cameron to try and achieve unity in the Tories because there was so much anti EU sentiment in the party and it wasn`t really anything to do with the public,they were meant to be once again a tool.And I personally wouldn`t call the Tory party anything remotely resembling lower class.Labour has always been slightly anti EU but never as fervently as the Tories.

As we know Scotland and Wales are both firmly behind Remain yet they`re not known as the lands of the upper class.

It`s also kind of strange how Remain and Leave are both backed by some of the richest people in the UK many of them bankers or hedge fund managers etc.Not exactly lower class people there either.

That to me goes to show its all about money and both sides despite their protestations don`t actually give a fuck what happens to the people as long as their riches are kept safe.

 

Also why are Jonson and his cronies and backers are so desperate to leave by the 31st October ?

Do they all of a sudden care about the people ?

Are they scared that they`ll never get voted in again if they don`t pull out ?

Are they scared of the tax haven rule that comes in in November (I believe this is the only reason RM has any interest). ?

 

 

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1 hour ago, murphaph said:

BMurphy I'm afraid you are not at all up to speed on what the leave campaign publicly stated right before the referendum. Farage famously stated that a 52/48 (remain) result would mean the issue was not over by a long way. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Ah now you`re exposing the Trumpian way of rabid leavers.

Say something your supporters want to hear even if total bollocks,keep saying it until it`s no longer pertinent to your argument.

Then totally ignore you ever said it when it goes against your argument or even totally deny ever saying it.

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23 minutes ago, Keleth said:

Ah now you`re exposing the Trumpian way of rabid leavers.

Say something your supporters want to hear even if total bollocks,keep saying it until it`s no longer pertinent to your argument.

Then totally ignore you ever said it when it goes against your argument or even totally deny ever saying it.

Johnson went even further when he criticised somebody who once wrote that "wind turbines wouldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding comment". Except that person was Boris Johnson.

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7 hours ago, French bean said:

Know a lot of Remainers do you? Just which lower classes are you talking about? Most traditional working class people are now doing quite well for themselves and enjoying middle class wages and standards. Unfortunately there is a new under class mainly of poorly educated people stuck in poor housing with very little hope for the future.

 

Look at the Demographics, again a lot of those voted to leave were elderly and poorly educated people in low skilled jobs or poor areas.

 

A lot of people just want to get on with things and better themselves hence the number of kids from 'working class' backgrounds that are going to University and feel betrayed by the Brexit vote.

Why would university students feel "betrayed" by the Brexit vote? or more betrayed by it than any other group?

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18 minutes ago, BMurphy said:

Why would university students feel "betrayed" by the Brexit vote? or more betrayed by it than any other group?

 

I'll take a stab at this. Their futures, perhaps?

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2 hours ago, BMurphy said:

Why would university students feel "betrayed" by the Brexit vote? or more betrayed by it than any other group?

Because they won't be able to work in Europe without a Visa if no agreement is reached or their chances of being employed by a European company has been reduced or they believe that the opportunities open to them that some of their parents enjoyed have been reduced.

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Hi Wulfrun,

Thanks for your post about the expats meeting. I am registered but did not receive notice of it! However, interested in your letter from the NHS "stating that NHS health cover would continue for 3 years after 31/1".

I receive healthcare through the S1 and as far as I know cover stops 31/10, if no agreement is reached. Is the 3 years cover after 31/20 mean that a bilateral agreement is now in place? Or is this wishful thinking?

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On 10/1/2019, 11:29:15, Wulfrun said:

 

I received a letter from the NHS this morning, stating that NHS health cover would continue for 3 years after 31/10. They also said that they are trying to negotiate a deal with Germany for further coverage when that 3 years is up. Don't think I'll hold my breath on that one after suffering the 3 years of "negotiations" to leave the EU, they'd probably give the job to David Dumbo Davies...

 

They also provided this link for further info https://www.gov.uk/uk-nationals-living-eu

The NHS are trying to negotiate a deal with Germany for 3 years´ further coverage ? So..not Boris etc? I bet TK and DAK etc are well informed!!!!

Good luck to us all with that!!

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5 hours ago, john g. said:

The NHS are trying to negotiate a deal with Germany for 3 years´ further coverage ? So..not Boris etc? I bet TK and DAK etc are well informed!!!!

Good luck to us all with that!!

On my NHS letter it only mentioned that Reciprocal healthcare would end on 31/10.  But they would "like to continue the S1 arrangement" after leaving the EU. i.e. stringing us along much as the Johnson government is doing on the main negotiation.

This has been incredibly badly planned. UK pensioners are in reality just an incovenience. Now they realise they've cocked up, they've rushed out alot of letters advising us to find an alternative to NHS funding. Nice easy cheap solution, pushing the problem onto us to sort out. I had a guy in the NHS Business Services Authority office on the phone, and he was basically asking me what my main complaints were before I'd started. It sounded like he was preparing a list to pass onto his boss. 

I'm certainly not taking this lying down. One letter is on its way to the boss at NHS BSA and to the minister Hancock.  (quite galling watching him applauding Boris' "great investment plans for our wonderful NHS" and how the NHS looks after everyone). 

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5 hours ago, alexunterwegs said:

 UK pensioners are in reality just an incovenience.

 

UK citizens resident in the EU are an inconvenience - if even that (maybe best to be ignored & they'll go away)

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The attitude of the UK government towards its citizens in the EU is in marked contrast to the attitude of the Irish government towards its citizens in Northern Ireland. Just a thought.

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15 hours ago, john_b said:

How the Brexiters have controlled the narrative around Brexit

 

Blog post by Prof. Simon Wren-Lewis

Interesting article. It's worrying how the right always seem to be so much better at getting the press on side (obviously, they have home field advantage!), but there is a lack of a concerted counter-narrative. It seems to me that whilst the "right"/ERG-types can communicate "Project Fear" or "No Deal", the difficulty for the moderate parties is finding and communicating an equally simple counter-argument. Instead the focus seems to be on a more measured and detailed analysis of why the right's arguments are flawed (in fact, much like the article), which is all well and good, but does not resonate as easily, and has a more difficult time gaining traction with large sections of the public.    

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