Brexit: The fallout

10,213 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, murphaph said:

Are you trolling?

 

What did she say?

 

She didn`t say this

 

"It was said we will probably find a solution in two years. But we could also find one in the next 30 days, why not?"

 

I actually did think better but now you are resorting to calling people trolls. Pathetic.

 

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What I do not understand is

 

The EU wants the backstop to prevent a hard border in Ireland

 

If the UK leaves the UK without a deal, there will probably be some sort of border in NI

 

So, why does EU/Ireland not start to talk about any alternative arrangements to keep the border minimal now.

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It's quite simple. The UK has created several red lines that mean a hard border would be the result.

 

The UK is saying it wants the ability to diverge from EU standards. That means a hard border somewhere. It's either in the Irish sea or along the land frontier.

 

Why should Ireland acquiesce to a negotiated hard border? We would get zero assistance from our EU partners during the economic fallout. 

 

If we hold firm and there's a crash out hard border then it's the same border at Calais, but there the problems directly affect millions of English people and the pressure will be on the UK to quickly agree to throw the DUP under the bus and grant special status to NI and to create a border in the Irish sea.

 

During the crash out our EU partners will support us.

 

Ireland would much prefer none of this was happening but we have to do what's best for us, not make life easy for the UK.

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1 hour ago, yesterday said:

So, why does EU/Ireland not start to talk about any alternative arrangements to keep the border minimal now.

 

Because the state of play as it is now is that May sold us down the river and uk parliament is apoplectic about stopping no deal so all the eu has to do (probably) is sit back and wait for the uk to bottle it.

 

Any movement towards rational discourse would help the uk to leave, so the eu simply says no sorry its all agreed.  That is exactly the right strategy for them, for exactly the same reason as Boris should also be saying bugger it then, its no deal and the day after its an end to free movement and everything else.

 

Not because thats what anyone wants but because anything else (from either side) moves the initiative which goes against their interests.

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6 hours ago, RenegadeFurther said:

 

So you don`t accept Merkels comments made any difference to the dynamics of Parliament?

 

Merkel has effectively said that there are negotiations to be had in the next 30 days to eliminate the backstop. That is what her words sounded to me and probably to most of the Tory party.

Oh for fucks sake blame everyone except Boris etc.

3 fucking years they`ve had to do something.

You and people like you are doing EXACTLY what Boris and his cronies want.If they go no deal and the arse falls out of the country the people truly responsible are just going to wash their hands of it and say "well Merkel and the EU are at fault" and absolute braindead fucking morons like you will agree.

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2 minutes ago, Keleth said:

Oh for fucks sake blame everyone except Boris etc.

3 fucking years they`ve had to do something.

You and people like you are doing EXACTLY what Boris and his cronies want.If they go no deal and the arse falls out of the country the people truly responsible are just going to wash their hands of it and say "well Merkel and the EU are at fault" and absolute braindead fucking morons like you will agree.

 

 

I wanted the vote of no confidence on 10th Sept. it will now be in Oct. She should have stayed out and let Parliament remove BoJo.The Tory rebels will now hold off.

 

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I hope the likes of Dominic Grieve and Ken Clarke can see that Angela Merkel was not saying what you think she was saying. They are intelligent people after all.

 

She even issued clarification for the hard of comprehending.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, murphaph said:

I hope the likes of Dominic Grieve and Ken Clarke can see that Angela Merkel was not saying what you think she was saying. They are intelligent people after all.

 

She even issued clarification for the hard of comprehending.

 

 

I want BoJo gone, but now it seems unlikely. BoJo came for hope, Merkel gave him that. Kate hoyey or whatever her name is will vote with the Government. The Gaukward squad were planning 10th Sept to remove BoJo, Merkels statement changed all that.

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7 hours ago, RenegadeFurther said:

I want BoJo gone, but now it seems unlikely. BoJo came for hope, Merkel gave him that. Kate hoyey or whatever her name is will vote with the Government. The Gaukward squad were planning 10th Sept to remove BoJo, Merkels statement changed all that.

 

What part of the following did you not understand?:

7 hours ago, murphaph said:

Angela Merkel was not saying what you think she was saying.

7 hours ago, murphaph said:

She even issued clarification for the hard of comprehending.

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12 hours ago, yesterday said:

 

So, why does EU/Ireland not start to talk about any alternative arrangements to keep the border minimal now.

 

They believe theoy cannot move on to trade until other matters are signed off.

 

In this aspect the Brexiteers do have a point. 

 

Red tape vs red lines so to speak.

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Not just red tape. The border issue was originally supposed to be agreed in phase one of the talks. The UK asked could it be pushed into phase two, to which Ireland reluctantly agreed. 

 

The UK then agreed the backstop but now wants to remove it. The UK has not proven itself a trustworthy negotiating partner.

 

The UK would love to push the border to the transition period (future relationship) because then it would fall on the EU as well to keep the border open, but Brexit is a British decision to which there are consequences.

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In "peacetime" the PSNI need several armed officers and 4 armoured support vehicles to mount just 1 small checkpoint near the border.

 

If the troubles return you'd need the army back. The British army is a fraction of the size it was during the troubles and there are hundreds of crossing points.

 

The Chief Constable of the PSNI clearly thinks Brexit is a bad idea.

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/PeterAdamSmith/status/1164973069515014145

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questions

Somebody said to me

 

Ireland Since 1920, has never had a customs border with the UK, OK there was a border during the WW2 and during the troubles - but these borders were to control  people ( during WW2) and to control weapons. But there has not been customs controls.

 

The UK/Eire joined the EU in about 1974.

 

If the UK/Eire had no customs borders before the EU/Eire joined the EU, why is it that we need  them in a no-deal scenario ??

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