Brexit: The fallout

10,238 posts in this topic

49 minutes ago, murphaph said:

The Tories simply can't be trusted, which is why Ireland was 100% correct to insist on a back stop in any agreed deal.

 

The Tories do not even trust each other. The press was briefed over the weekend that the DUP did not fall into line as they were suspicious of BoJo and Raab's intentions. 

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2 minutes ago, Kommentarlos said:

 

The Tories do not even trust each other. The press was briefed over the weekend that the DUP did not fall into line as they were suspicious of BoJo and Raab's intentions. 

 

BoJo are Raab are running a constant leadership campaign.

 

Tory Brexiteer Steve Baker has said he would vote with Labour to bring down the Government in they went for a Soft Brexit.

 

The Chief Whip Julian Smith is attacking all Tories.

 

Its all out Blue on Blue warfare.

 

 

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23 hours ago, john g. said:

The same Jon Snow who allegedly sang " Fuck the Tories!"

I fear this good fellow is on his last legs considering he seems to get out of breath when presenting the news!

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1 minute ago, RenegadeFurther said:

Its all out Blue on Blue warfare.

 

Was that not what David Cameron set out to avoid when he set this big mess in motion? Perhaps not his best decision then.

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The German government says it wants to allow British citizens to travel to Germany without a visa even in the event of a no-deal Brexit.

In a five-page letter sent to Germany’s federal states at the end of last week, the country’s interior ministry endorsed EU proposals to allow Brits to enter the Schengen area visa-free when making short trips.

The proposal, which is designed as a guideline for administrations in Germany’s 16 states, refrained from offering advice on how to treat Britons visiting for longer periods.

Britons already based in Germany would have to apply for a residence permit if the country crashed out of the EU without a deal, the letter stated.

However, the interior ministry advised federal states to automatically guarantee residency rights to Britons during a transition period, and announced plans for a law that would make it easier for British pensioners or low earners to meet the requirements for a permit.

From the Guardian live blog

 

 

 

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Steve Baker also today admitted that he had sent an email in which he stated that leave could spend as much as it wanted to win the referendum by creating separate legal entities and went on to blame some unnamed advisor on this incorrect (and illegal) information:

 

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/steve-baker-on-bbc-politics-live-1-5970810

 

That is an incredible admission, following on from the quiet burial of the appeal on Friday.

 

It's amazing but had the referendum been legally binding it would have been declared null and void already.

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Labour is whipping its MP`s to back Common Market 2.0 (Norway plus). SNP is backing Common Market 2.0.

 

Labour is effectively saying freedom of movement is a price worth paying to collapse this Government. If Common Market 2.0 (Norway+) is any way close to a majority the Government will collapse.

 

Theresa May has organised a 5 hour cabinet meeting tomorrow. General Election?

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21 minutes ago, RenegadeFurther said:

If this is true the Government will collapse.

I think they have already collapsed in all but name

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Westminster makes me laugh

 

Labour is backing the so called Common market 2 option.

 

Only problem with that is both Norway and Iceland have a veto and they aren't too keen on having the UK screw things up. Might have been a good idea to ask them first.

 

Chasing unicorns again it seems

 

D - Nick Boles’ for common market 2.0

Tabled by the Conservatives Nick Boles, Robert Halfon and Dame Caroline Spelman, Labour’s Stephen Kinnock and Lucy Powell plus the SNP’s Stewart Hosie. The motion proposes UK membership of the European Free Trade Association (Efta) and European Economic Area. It allows continued participation in the single market and a “comprehensive customs arrangement” with the EU after Brexit – including a “UK say” on future EU trade deals – would remain in place until the agreement of a wider trade deal that guarantees frictionless movement of goods and an open border in Ireland.

 

 

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47 minutes ago, LeCheese said:

Westminster makes me laugh

 

Labour is backing the so called Common market 2 option.

 

Only problem with that is both Norway and Iceland have a veto and they aren't too keen on having the UK screw things up. Might have been a good idea to ask them first.

 

Chasing unicorns again it seems

 

D - Nick Boles’ for common market 2.0

Tabled by the Conservatives Nick Boles, Robert Halfon and Dame Caroline Spelman, Labour’s Stephen Kinnock and Lucy Powell plus the SNP’s Stewart Hosie. The motion proposes UK membership of the European Free Trade Association (Efta) and European Economic Area. It allows continued participation in the single market and a “comprehensive customs arrangement” with the EU after Brexit – including a “UK say” on future EU trade deals – would remain in place until the agreement of a wider trade deal that guarantees frictionless movement of goods and an open border in Ireland.

 

 

How big are Iceland and Norway's Gdp again? If you actually bothered to read the amendment you will see it is only modelled on Norway's. 

 

The EU have also said they will support this type of agreement.

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Parliament paralysed still. Matt Frei reporting that EU officials indicating they see little reason to grant an extension to A50.

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7 hours ago, murphaph said:

... they see little reason ...

 

That much?

 

They obviously see much more that I do!

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14 hours ago, RenegadeFurther said:

From Robert Peston

 

 

If this is true the Government will collapse.

 

 

Well, the MPs voted against every possible proposal again.   Common Market (1.0) was defeated only by 3 votes.   And Common Market 2.0 by 21 votes.  Among all other options that were rejected.

 

But what it is ridiculous is that there actually only 3 options on the table No Deal, May's Deal and Revoke Art 50.   So as far as I understand, all these crazy proposals can be negotiated only after UK is out of the EU, so during the transitional period for which you need deal.   Since No Deal is out of the table, WTF don't they just finally pass bloody May's deal and start negotiating the Norway+++SuperCanada++CommonMarket7.0++ Deal?

 

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11 minutes ago, Krieg said:

 

 

Well, the MPs voted against every possible proposal again.   Common Market (1.0) was defeated only by 3 votes.   And Common Market 2.0 by 21 votes.  Among all other options that were rejected.

 

But what it is ridiculous is that there actually only 3 options on the table No Deal, May's Deal and Revoke Art 50.   So as far as I understand, all these crazy proposals can be negotiated only after UK is out of the EU, so during the transitional period for which you need deal.   Since No Deal is out of the table, WTF don't they just finally pass bloody May's deal and start negotiating the Norway+++SuperCanada++CommonMarket7.0++ Deal?

 

 

What I suspect is

 

1) The Tory hard right want a hard brexit. Keep rejecting deal.

2) Corbyn wants a General election. Keep rejecting deal.

3) Lib Dems want a second referendum. Keep rejecting Deal.

4) DUP wants the backstop removed. Keep rejecting Deal.

5) SNP wants a referendum on independence. Keep rejecting deal. 

 

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36 minutes ago, Krieg said:

Since No Deal is out of the table,

 

No deal is the default unless they make up there minds on something

 

36 minutes ago, Krieg said:

WTF don't they just finally pass bloody May's deal and start negotiating the Norway+++SuperCanada++CommonMarket7.0++ Deal?

 

Norway + needs all the EFTA countries to agree not to veto -- that will not happen frankly  here   &  here.

EFTA is run by consesus, No way they are going to let the UK  play their confrontational politics inside EFTA

& even if they did manage to persuade the scandinvian countries, it would leave the UK paying to play,  free movement etc etc etc .. 

CETA  took 9 years to negotiate.

A customs union does not solve the Irish border problem either.

 

They either need to accept Mays deal ( good luck  with that) or just drop out in 11 days time. ( or hold another referendum of course ) ( As you surmised above )

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8 minutes ago, RenegadeFurther said:

 

What I suspect is

 

1) The Tory hard right want a hard brexit. Keep rejecting deal.

2) Corbyn wants a General election. Keep rejecting deal.

3) Lib Dems want a second referendum. Keep rejecting Deal.

4) DUP wants the backstop removed. Keep rejecting Deal.

5) SNP wants a referendum on independence. Keep rejecting deal. 

 

 

 

I get your point about the deal.  But check last night's results:

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-47781009

 

It is basically one party the responsible for rejecting everything.

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