How to get German Citizenship and retain (dual) US Citizenship

410 posts in this topic

Hallo zusammen.

Wow, what a relief. I found this exception through my own research and have been trying to confirm it's validity and have started massive search on the WWW to find someone who has gone through this. Somehow never came across this forum thread until someone just showed it to me today. So what a big relief.

 

I'm getting ready to submit my paperwork for naturalization "unter Hinnahme der Mehrstaatigkeit". Been in Germany for 8 years, speak native level German, fulfill all the requirements... etc... and really glad to see that it has worked out.

 

@pianostar69 , may I ask if you had to provide any documents from the US Gov't regarding the official cost of renunciation?
You did this all in Berlin, correct? Mind telling me which Einbürgerungsbehörde you went through? ;-) Might help going to one where they obviously have done this before.

 

Looking forward to when this rollercoaster of a journey will end! 

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19 hours ago, herrdebonnaire said:

I'm getting ready to submit my paperwork for naturalization "unter Hinnahme der Mehrstaatigkeit". Been in Germany for 8 years, speak native level German, fulfill all the requirements... etc... and really glad to see that it has worked out.

 

 

Hang on, are you getting dual citizenship without using the low income loophole?

We need to know! Please. :)

 

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Just now, Metall said:

 

Hang on, are you getting dual citizenship without using the low income loophole?

We need to know! Please. :)

 

 

Nooo :-) I'm using the renunciation fee also. Sorry for the confusion. 

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@pianostar69 I believe I read in your original post that you did your application in Neukölln, is that correct? Meaning they at least happen to have dealt with this situation before, by the time I get there :-)

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On 3/1/2017, 1:19:16, herrdebonnaire said:

@pianostar69 , may I ask if you had to provide any documents from the US Gov't regarding the official cost of renunciation?

 

https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2015/09/08/2015-22054/schedule-of-fees-for-consular-services-department-of-state-and-overseas-embassies-and

 

I printed this out and took it with me to the interview. It's from the federal register, a notice of the changes in the fee for Relinquishment, from 0 to $2350. It also lists that the fee for renunciation remains $2350. The caseworker accepted it as proof, but he barely looked at it.

 

I have not received an answer yet, so I'm not sure if I needed proof, if this was sufficient etc. But the guy at the Ausländerbehörde did look at it, say okay when I explained what it was, and added to the pile of papers I left there.

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On 3/2/2017, 9:19:38, herrdebonnaire said:

@pianostar69 I believe I read in your original post that you did your application in Neukölln, is that correct? Meaning they at least happen to have dealt with this situation before, by the time I get there :-)


Yes, I think it was a first for the woman working my case, but she had definitely heard about it before. Neukölln apparently processes the most new German citizenships of any community in Germany, so they have seen it all! 

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I got an interesting question from a relative:

 

He has US citizenship only, but has been in  Germany for 8+ years (has an Aufenthaltstitel, sufficient German, pension payments etc.)

One of his parents held an EU citizenship (Lithuanian), and he already knows he can get dual US and Lithianian passports (because both countries don't care).

So far, so simple.

 

Here comes the fun question:

Can he use his brand new EU passport and apply for dual *German* citizenship with that? Meaning German and Lithuanian, and not even mention still being American (and thus not have to renounce)? Does the German side check for additional nationalities? Could he conceivably wind up with three passports??

 

The question of "bootstrapping" your way to German/US citizenship is being debated more as a joke in the family, but I have a suspicion this might actually work.

 

Any thoughts?

 

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But, this guy is registered in Germany as American, so they will very likely ask for proof of renunciation unless he requests an exception, I would think.

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1 minute ago, kaffeemitmilch said:

But, this guy is registered in Germany as American, so they will very likely ask for proof of renunciation unless he requests an exception, I would think.

 

I had that thought, too.

 

But he could deregister as an American, and then re-register with his EU citizenship, couldn't he?

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I think the core question is whether a EU citizen applying for German citizenship is *asked* if he has further nationalities.

 

So, you Brits who have recently naturalized here - what did the Amt ask you?

 

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1 hour ago, Metall said:

I got an interesting question from a relative:

 

He has US citizenship only, but has been in  Germany for 8+ years (has an Aufenthaltstitel, sufficient German, pension payments etc.)

One of his parents held an EU citizenship (Lithuanian), and he already knows he can get dual US and Lithianian passports (because both countries don't care).

So far, so simple.

 

Here comes the fun question:

Can he use his brand new EU passport and apply for dual *German* citizenship with that? Meaning German and Lithuanian, and not even mention still being American (and thus not have to renounce)? Does the German side check for additional nationalities? Could he conceivably wind up with three passports??

 

The question of "bootstrapping" your way to German/US citizenship is being debated more as a joke in the family, but I have a suspicion this might actually work.

 

Any thoughts?

 

 

I think it won't work.

 

They ask for your current citizenships, so relly will have to be honest about USA.

They will probably say relly must renounce US and can keep Lithuanian (great!)

 

I am concerned because my birth documents and information are South Africa (DEU renunciation requirement), but I only have a UK passport.  My SA one was stolen on a train in Zimbabwe many years back and I neither reported nor replaced it.  So from DEU point of view, I "could" still have my SA citizienship.

 

I did some research, and the fact that I was naturalised in the UK in 1993 or so WITHOUT getting South African permission means that I lost my SA citizenship automatically, anyway.

 

Still, you never know what curve-balls you will get dealing with (DEU) government depts.  In a bad case scenario, I might get asked to provide evidence that I am no longer a Saffer, which will lead to months of delay because the South African embassies here have become extremely slow in doing anything.

 

Nothing much to do with OPs post, but I feel better after all that typing!

 

 

 

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On 3/6/2017, 11:59:41, Metall said:

I think the core question is whether a EU citizen applying for German citizenship is *asked* if he has further nationalities.

 

So, you Brits who have recently naturalized here - what did the Amt ask you?

 

 

On 3/6/2017, 12:15:51, kaffeemitmilch said:

The Hessian application asks for all nationalities one has at the time: https://innen.hessen.de/sites/default/files/media/anlage_01-einbuergerungsantrag_0.pdf

 

It was awhile that I was naturalised here, but the one back in NRW asked for all nationalities too.

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I had my appointment a few weeks ago. Not only did they ask for all my nationalities and birthplace, they also asked for the birthplace and nationalities of my parents, and my child.

 

So in the case of Americans, having been born in America is a dead giveaway that you have that nationality. Having American-born parents who live in the US would also prompt questions, I would imagine. And if you have a child who you transmitted US citizenship to, you'd also have explaining to do. You'd have to lie multiple times on the form.

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OK so I finally went to the Einbürgerungsbehörde this morning at around 7:45 (they open at 7:30). NOBODY was there. I was called into a room and a neither friendly nor unfriendly woman was at her desk. I said I wanted information on naturalizing. She asked for my passport and how long I'd been living in Germany. I said four years, which didn't make her too happy, though she then asked if I was married to a German, to which I responded YES. Then she asked a bunch of other questions on income, job situation, etc., while checking relevant boxes on a checklist. She said I'd have to give up my US citizenship, to which I responded that I knew, but that there are exceptions. I mentioned it's really expensive to renounce. She asked how much I make, and I said, well, less. She said that they'd calculate it in Darmstadt anyway, which is where they process these it seems. She seemed to try to intimidate me slightly, but not too overtly.

 

Anyway, the requirements in the checklist:

- picture

- birth certificate

- marriage certificate

- passport and residence permit

- proof of German language ability

- proof of having taken the integration test

- job contract and one pay stub (Gehaltsabrechnung? Is that what it means?)

- proof of having paid retirement insurance for the last three years

- declaration of spouse's German nationality

- loyalty declaration!

- declaration to honor the constitution and shun extremism in all forms!

 

So, more requirements than other places it seems? The form says everything needs to be translated by a legal translator here. It's going to cost a pretty penny.

 

What worries me is that they only want one pay stub. How are they going to calculate my average salary over six months or whatever so that I am below the USD2,350/month? I think I'll just submit several pay stubs.

 

Anyway, I'm a little nervous/disheartened after this. I will have to write a cover letter for my application, I think, to try and tug at the heartstrings of whomever will be processing it.

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On 29.3.2017, 12:53:09, kaffeemitmilch said:

OK so I finally went to the Einbürgerungsbehörde this morning at around 7:45 (they open at 7:30). NOBODY was there. I was called into a room and a neither friendly nor unfriendly woman was at her desk. I said I wanted information on naturalizing. She asked for my passport and how long I'd been living in Germany. I said four years, which didn't make her too happy, though she then asked if I was married to a German, to which I responded YES. Then she asked a bunch of other questions on income, job situation, etc., while checking relevant boxes on a checklist. She said I'd have to give up my US citizenship, to which I responded that I knew, but that there are exceptions. I mentioned it's really expensive to renounce. She asked how much I make, and I said, well, less. She said that they'd calculate it in Darmstadt anyway, which is where they process these it seems. She seemed to try to intimidate me slightly, but not too overtly.

 

Anyway, the requirements in the checklist:

- picture

- birth certificate

- marriage certificate

- passport and residence permit

- proof of German language ability

- proof of having taken the integration test

- job contract and one pay stub (Gehaltsabrechnung? Is that what it means?)

- proof of having paid retirement insurance for the last three years

- declaration of spouse's German nationality

- loyalty declaration!

- declaration to honor the constitution and shun extremism in all forms!

 

So, more requirements than other places it seems? The form says everything needs to be translated by a legal translator here. It's going to cost a pretty penny.

 

What worries me is that they only want one pay stub. How are they going to calculate my average salary over six months or whatever so that I am below the USD2,350/month? I think I'll just submit several pay stubs.

 

Anyway, I'm a little nervous/disheartened after this. I will have to write a cover letter for my application, I think, to try and tug at the heartstrings of whomever will be processing it.

 

Oooooooh! Keep us updated on what they say! I earn less than 2k a month too and would love to use it as an excuse to apply for dual citizenship USA/DE. This is fascinating!

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