How to get German Citizenship and retain (dual) US Citizenship

[mako1 864]

@Berlinexpatnine - My experience in Munich was straightforward, the Beamtin told me they almost never accepted in Munich any exception with regards to keeping the old citizenship. This is only based on my conversation, not unfriendly, with the Beamtin, but basically she stated (and would never write down or admit) that Bayern will do whatever it can to not give dual citizenship. In my specific case, they decided my spouse's income needed to be included in the my reported income, which put me well above the limit to retain the old citizenship.

 

But this was a few years ago and I hope others have more luck with the local bureaucrats.

 

Also, regarding integrating, I would be more amenable to it knowing I get to join the club. That said, I am pretty well integrated, I complain a lot, like all Germans. But it is something that should be encouraged, maybe not integrating, but understanding the local culture (meaning you don't have to like German 'cuisine' but you understand that (1) Die Würde des Menschen ist unantastbar. Sie zu achten und zu schützen ist Verpflichtung aller staatlichen Gewalt. usw).

 

 

[mako1 864]

https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/innenpolitik/faeser-einbuergerung-103.html

 

Draft proposal to make the changes.

 

Quote

Zugleich solle die Verpflichtung wegfallen, bei der Einbürgerung auf die bisherige Staatsangehörigkeit zu verzichten

.

[murphaph 9,638]

Without significantly increasing staffing levels to process all the new applications, these (welcome) reforms will lead to sheer chaos. Even under the current regime my straightforward EU citizen application took two years to process. Imagine you are patiently waiting to apply and then thousands of applications from people here 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 years go in ahead of you. You're now looking at a wait time of 7 years in my LK.

[Fietsrad 385]

If the rules are simplified, less staff are needed. There are enough people who could apply but can not afford the fees. I think it was about 500€ in total for me.

 

Getting UK citizenship is more expensive, a couple of grand, many people could not pay that out of the Portokasse/petty cash😕

[murphaph 9,638]

12 minutes ago, Fietsrad said:

If the rules are simplified, less staff are needed. There are enough people who could apply but can not afford the fees. I think it was about 500€ in total for me.

 

Getting UK citizenship is more expensive, a couple of grand, many people could not pay that out of the Portokasse/petty cash😕

They aren't going to really simplify the rules except for the elimination of the requirement to give up your other citizenship(s) and to relax the language proficiency requirements a bit. This can only lead to a massive increase in applications with a minimal impact on processing time per application. They will still have to verify your identity etc, check criminal record etc. I predict, that waiting times will significantly increase. They should be phasing such changes in gradually. There are probably over a hundred thousand Turks alone in Germany that will apply for citizenship, now that they will finally be allowed to retain their Turkish citizenship (assuming this draft becomes law). I am absolutely sure that without a big increase in staffing levels that departments will be completely swamped and processing times will increase almost exponentially.

[fraufruit 41,924]

44 minutes ago, murphaph said:

They aren't going to really simplify the rules except for the elimination of the requirement to give up your other citizenship(s) and to relax the language proficiency requirements a bit

 

Yes. The two things most have been waiting for. It will get very busy.

[murphaph 9,638]

It could easily get so busy that the stretched public servants strike or go on a work to rule. 

[TurMech 180]

it makes sense to make the application before the new law comes into effect. Then you can be in front of the mass, waiting for the new law.

 

2 hours ago, murphaph said:

Even under the current regime my straightforward EU citizen application took two years to process.

 

That is extreme and depending on the location. My neighbours received the citizenship certificate 6 months after the application.

[mako1 864]

The CSU came out against it, naturally. What is important is if Merz/CDU come out against. Like the Burgergeld, they can influence things in the Bundesrat.

 

Munich Beamten will find a compromise, new rules, but much longer waiting times.

 

Also, they would have no problem telling applicants the rule is the one in effect the day you submit. Start over.

[murphaph 9,638]

23 hours ago, TurMech said:

it makes sense to make the application before the new law comes into effect. Then you can be in front of the mass, waiting for the new law.

 

 

That is extreme and depending on the location. My neighbours received the citizenship certificate 6 months after the application.

I am not sure you will be able to apply in advance of the new law coming into force because the application itself will reference the paragraph you are applying for citizenship under. That paragraph won't exist any more. I don't know what actually happens in such cases. Can the new law be written to subsume the applications made under the old law? What if some people do not (for whatever reason) want to be naturalised under the new law? Will every applicant in the system need to be asked to reapply or confirm that they are happy for their applications to be processed under the new law? It's going to be quite a complicated mess IMO. They should phase such huge changes in, gradually reducing the minimum residency period and maybe gradually phasing in the ability to retain your old citizenship, starting with the over 70s and working down or something. There are surely tens of thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands of applications which would already have been made if it were not for the current highly restrictive regulations. A big bang change is going to see a huge flood of applications. Ideally they would just recruit more people to do this but that is easier said than done. All I can say is, I am glad I am already German. 

 

I have heard of two year waits in other places, including in some Bezirke in Berlin. The funny thing is, I used to live in Neukölln and always just assumed that due to the large number of foreigners there that they would have a lot of applicants and that it would take a long time. I further assumed that in our current LK just outside Berlin, that there would be far fewer applicants and that it would take less time to be processed. How wrong was I?! I reckon two years will be considered fast once this new draft becomes law, assuming it does.

[Krieg 14,917]

I've waited 22 years, I can wait a bit more.

[mako1 864]

FDP came out against it. And the CDU.

Remember these parties when we do finally get to vote.

 

[mako1 864]

There was a debate in the Bundestag yesterday and naturally the Union and the idiots to the right of the Union spoke out specifically against the dual citizen part of the proposal. However the linke was in favor (but they have a handful of votes in the Bundestag and none in the Rat I think).

 

The FDP also is playing politics and trying to accelerate kicking out those who are here and have not been granted asylum/don't qualify. They have signed on to the coalition  agreement and should be going along but want the extra cookie and to score some conservative points. Abschiebung. Apples and bananas, but we all look alike to the Germans.

[TurMech 180]

3 hours ago, mako1 said:

There was a debate in the Bundestag yesterday and naturally the Union and the idiots to the right of the Union spoke out specifically against the dual citizen part of the proposal. However the linke was in favor (but they have a handful of votes in the Bundestag and none in the Rat I think).

 

The FDP also is playing politics and trying to accelerate kicking out those who are here and have not been granted asylum/don't qualify. They have signed on to the coalition  agreement and should be going along but want the extra cookie and to score some conservative points. Abschiebung. Apples and bananas, but we all look alike to the Germans.

 

I started to lose my hope about the new citizenship law. There can be a new citizenship law, but the compromise will most likely be the removal of double citizenship from the draft. Union is very rigid on that, and they have the power to block.

 

I decided to make my application according to the current law in January. If by miracle, they agree on allowing double citizenship, then i will keep mine, if not, i will give it up, and if someday in the future, there will be double citizenship in Germany, i will receive my old (current) citizenship back. That's the plan.

[mako1 864]

The heute show had a good piece on einbürgerung and dual citizenship on Friday Dec 2.

https://www.zdf.de/comedy/heute-show

The first segment is all about the opposition from the CDU. The CDU demonstrates their lack of knowledge of the rules basically.

And a proposed new test scheme to become German with the Beamte (understand how a fax machine works, socks with birkenstocks, etc...)

And the Sud Deutsche has given us a label, der inländischen Ausländer.

https://www.sueddeutsche.de/meinung/kommentar-prantl-einbuergerung-integration-1.5707274?reduced=true

But the article is very pro (dual citizenship).

[Fietsrad 385]

What if Germany allows dual citizenship later? Can someone who renounced their US citizenship get it back, Plus a refund of the fee?

[JG52 1,018]

31 minutes ago, Fietsrad said:

What if Germany allows dual citizenship later? Can someone who renounced their US citizenship get it back, Plus a refund of the fee?

 

According to the U.S. State Department, renunciation of U.S. citizenship after the age of 18 is irrevocable.

[pianostar69 31]

I think the larger question of the current attempts to change integration law being addressed in many of these last posts are somewhat off-topic and should be moved (hello, moderator?) to a more recent and more relevant forum topic. Remember, it is a practice and not a law that people whose countries require a fee to renounce former citizenship are allowed to retain the former citizenship and get German citizenship as long as the fee for renouncing is more than that person's monthly income (after expenses and before taxes). There is no reason to believe that this practice would necessarily change even if the law does — the practice was never written into law to begin with.

[fraufruit 41,924]

31 minutes ago, pianostar69 said:

I think the larger question of the current attempts to change integration law being addressed in many of these last posts are somewhat off-topic

 

I think they are 100% relevant for this discussion. At least they are for me.

[Krieg 14,917]

1 hour ago, pianostar69 said:

 it is a practice and not a law that people whose countries require a fee to renounce former citizenship are allowed to retain the former citizenship and get German citizenship as long as the fee for renouncing is more than that person's monthly income (after expenses and before taxes).

 

That "exception" is nonsense anyway.   Because you have to prove financial damage base on the FAMILY brutto income.  So if you and your wife have decent well paid jobs such financial damage must be really high.  So they punish the successful and reward the people who barely make it.

 

Source:  Been there, tried that, failed.