How to get German Citizenship and retain (dual) US Citizenship

685 posts in this topic

I'm not retired but I am looking forward to it.

 

And I thought of the future where my fixed income retirement pension would once again qualify me for the dual citizenship exception (henceforth: DCE).

 

Why?

1. voting, participating actively in the system (where I have invested heavily with my euro taxes and 15 years of my life)

2. The assumption is a German passport will make it easier to, say, live somewhere in France/Spain etc for a year or two in retirement. My health care, inshallah, will be from the german system since I have been working 90% of the second half of my work career (one of the weirder german rules) in Germany. I assume that is one less pain in the butt to explain to a spaniard that my residency, nationality and health care are all from the same place.

3. to make the stupid bavarian Beamten accept that foreigners are people also and even the bavarians have to follow the prussian/national rules

 

Nothing is certain but it is good that the SPD is keeping this in the realm of possibility. I don't think the Länder elections can have too much effect on the list of issues the coalition is working on. The 'ergmöglichen' of dual citzenship is not really something they will lose a lot of political capital over, even the FDP has agreed to it. I guess the Union might squeek but that is their role as opposition and if they complain too much they will be making common cause with the AFD which even Merz/Söder are smart enough to avoid.

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Another question for an American acquaintance - the fact that you cannot currently renounce US citizenship qualifies you for an exception under Section 12 Abs. 1 S. 2 Nr 1, or 2 StAG? Which one exactly?

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@kaffeemitmich, just so you know, they charge if you retract your application. I did this in Munich based on my change in income and they wanted 50% of the normal fee. So if the Americans reopen the consulate and provide the necessary info, you probably either renounce (2300) or pay to withdraw your German citizenship application.

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1 hour ago, Metall said:

What do you mean? That the Bundesrat will block dual citizenship?

 

Yes. As i understand it, the change of the citizenship law regarding the double citizenship, requires the agreement of the Bundesrat after the Bundestag, that is "zustimmungspflichtig". CDU is the only party against the double citizenship law (i exclude AFD, as it is not represented in any of the governments). With the latest victories of the CDU, they can block the new draft.

 

Die Grafik erläutert das Gesetzgebungsverfahren bei Zustimmungsgesetzen. Eine barrierefreie Beschreibung kann auf www.bundesrat.de unter dem Navigationspunkt Struktur und Aufgaben / Gesetzgebung abgerufen werden.

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51 minutes ago, TurMech said:

As i understand it, the change of the citizenship law regarding the double citizenship, requires the agreement of the Bundesrat after the Bundestag, that is "zustimmungspflichtig". CDU is the only party against the double citizenship law (i exclude AFD, as it is not represented in any of the governments). With the latest victories of the CDU, they can block the new draft.

 

Rats. :(

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I say rats to the U.S. consulate still being unavailable in Munich. Just flew to the U.S. to visit and to get something notarized that needed to be done over a year ago. Good thing I didn't kick the bucket in between.

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Even if the Bundesrat blocked it, which I am sceptical, the current figures do not lie. See infographic that shows the majority of applicants in 2017 from every single continent received dual citizenship.

 

https://www.dw.com/en/dual-citizenship-granted-to-most-naturalized-germans/a-45030118

 

Berlin Senat is also going to make it easier for Berliners to acquire a German passport, too.

 

https://www.berliner-zeitung.de/politik-gesellschaft/integration-berliner-senat-will-mehr-als-400000-auslaender-einbuergern-li.228868

 

 

Obviously, it's better if it were codified, as it would make things more certain, but the rules have not been strictly applied for years now, and are clearly going to get even more lax in this area irrespective of what the Bundesrat wants. There's no need to be all doom and gloom about it when the direction of travel is clear.

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On 4/8/2022, 8:12:49, kaffeemitmilch said:

 

 

On 5/21/2022, 11:12:35, Fritsen said:

Even if the Bundesrat blocked it, which I am sceptical, the current figures do not lie. See infographic that shows the majority of applicants in 2017 from every single continent received dual citizenship.

 

https://www.dw.com/en/dual-citizenship-granted-to-most-naturalized-germans/a-45030118

 

Berlin Senat is also going to make it easier for Berliners to acquire a German passport, too.

 

https://www.berliner-zeitung.de/politik-gesellschaft/integration-berliner-senat-will-mehr-als-400000-auslaender-einbuergern-li.228868

 

 

Obviously, it's better if it were codified, as it would make things more certain, but the rules have not been strictly applied for years now, and are clearly going to get even more lax in this area irrespective of what the Bundesrat wants. There's no need to be all doom and gloom about it when the direction of travel is clear.

 

I think the reason that so many people are getting dual citizenship is that first-generation immigrants are rarely willing to give up their first citizenship, so they don't bother to apply for citizenship at all. The reality of the sacrificing important rights even in a problematic homeland are beyond what most people are willing to subject themselves to.

There is also a group of people who would happily surrender their original citizenship because they would face death or persecution in their home country, but such countries also don't cooperate in releasing people from their citizenship, so such immigrants also end up with dual citizenship.

 

Making dual citizenship available by default is the only way to integrate first-generation immigrants into the full civic life of the country, so I hope even more progress is soon made in this area.
 

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2 hours ago, Berlinexpatnine said:

I think the reason that so many people are getting dual citizenship is that first-generation immigrants are rarely willing to give up their first citizenship, so they don't bother to apply for citizenship at all.

For me, an absolute non starter. I would say also for most other foreigners who value being able to travel home without any visa headaches, who value rights such as inheritance, owning property and other issues which can be lost, it's just not worth it.

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21 hours ago, scook17 said:

For me, an absolute non starter. I would say also for most other foreigners who value being able to travel home without any visa headaches, who value rights such as inheritance, owning property and other issues which can be lost, it's just not worth it.

 

I don't lose any of these rights, if i give up my citizenship, but i still would like to keep it.

 

On 30.5.2022, 15:11:27, Berlinexpatnine said:

Making dual citizenship available by default is the only way to integrate first-generation immigrants into the full civic life of the country, so I hope even more progress is soon made in this area.

 

The legislation will hopefully take place at the end of this year or early next year, but regarding the integration part, i don't agree that it will do any contribution. 

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I think if you want to argue that granting citizenship under easier conditions won't help with integration, you would also have to argue that taking away citizenship (and the right to vote) from a current group of Germans would not harm this group of Germans in terms of their societal integration. 

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11 hours ago, Berlinexpatnine said:

I think if you want to argue that granting citizenship under easier conditions won't help with integration

 

Many people i know want the passport for practical purposes like, visa-free travel, not having to deal with the renewal of residence permits, giving children the chance to work/study/live in any EU country, having the chance to leave the country without losing their rights etc. I don't hear (could be exceptions) somebody saying, i will have the right to vote in Germany, which is very important for me..

 

11 hours ago, Berlinexpatnine said:

I think if you want to argue that granting citizenship under easier conditions won't help with integration, you would also have to argue that taking away citizenship (and the right to vote) from a current group of Germans would not harm this group of Germans in terms of their societal integration. 

 

I think this is quite irrelevevant.. You can easily find citizenship holders, who are not socially integrated and vice versa..

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How long did everyone’s application take after submitting all the documents? So far I paid the fee, submitted all documents requested from the office. I waited 4 months total so far.

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I am also in Munich.


I submitted a request for a Telefonberatung on 10 February 2022, the first available appointment was for 26 April 2022. On 26 April, the Beamterin called and had a few interesting points:

  • She said Germany would conditionally grant citizenship, but require renouncement after it was again possible.
  • The Beamterin said that processing time was 8-12 months, and likely more 12 than 8 due to anticipated retirements.
  • It is not possible to for me to send documents online, only via post, since I requested Telefonberatung. (doh!)
  • If you submit online, you must pay immediatly, while if you submit via mail, you pay at the end.

I send a bunch of documents back to the KVR, the last letter I got back was that my application date is 17 May so I guess it's going to be a while. However, my EU coworker got his German citizenship three months after applying. One other thread to monitor (for Munich, but there are plenty for other municipalities) is on deutsch-werden.

 

A couple points that maybe will be helpful for someone:

  • NRW and Bavaria are doing online applications through pilot project with your local municipality, you can upload all your documents as PDF, and it will start the process much quicker. I waited three months for the Beamter to call, only for her to tell me everything that was already written on the muenchen.de website
  • PDF copies of your Wartezeitauskunft/Versichernverlauf are available from the DRV website using your ID and the Ausweis2 app
  • Birth certificate must list your city of birth. I submitted a 20-year old translated certificate, but the KVR kicked it back since it only listed the county, not city
  • It is possible to apply without a language certificate (and probably Einbürgerungstest), so long as you send a copy of the invoice showing that you will take a test in the future, and send a copy of the test results when they arrive

As a last point, I wrote to the Green and CSU Abgeordneter representing my district, explaining why dual citizenship was important to me, my situation in Germany, and requesting to support the dual citizenship proposals in the Koalitionsvertrag. The CSU representative emailed back a week later, and said (after a bunch of pleasantries):

 

Die CDU/CSU Fraktion wird mögliche Änderungen bei der doppelten Staatsbürgerschaft intensiv diskutieren und bei den Beratungen konstruktiv mitwirken. Ihre Forderung bringe ich gern in die parlamentarische Debatte ein.
 

While the Green representative hasn't responded (a friend in the Green party joked that the Union has nothing to do now, so they have time to respond to letters :rolleyes:). A few more letters will hopefully keep this subject present in the members' agenda. You can find your representative here.

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Commenting on radioactive76: I had no idea they were still denying dual citizenship to Americans in some states. That was absolutely not my experience in Berlin. I mean I had to wait 30 months, but that was OK, because by then enough time had passed with US embassy closed.

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