How to get German Citizenship and retain (dual) US Citizenship

632 posts in this topic

The proposed dual nationality rules looking good for Brits who missed the deadline due to Brexit.  I wonder how high up on the new Government's agenda it will be.   That's not to say that dual nationality won't bring up its complications, such as taxation etc. At least for those of us past a certain age, no fear of military conscription, if it were ever to return!   

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1 hour ago, kaffeemitmilch said:

I have a feeling it'll take a year.

 

1 year looks reasonable. They'll have then hopefully won 3 Landtagswahlen in March and May..

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On 25/11/2021, 12:34:00, kaffeemitmilch said:

Yeah this does indeed seem to be the case. Germany seems to be the Goldilocks country, with decent enough wages and low costs. For all its problems, I couldn't objectively justify moving elsewhere with my current skills and salary. Of course, that's if I'm objective. Subjectively, I'd like a change :)

 

You've just perfectly described my current (first world) problem. 

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On 25.11.2021, 17:47:02, Berlinexpatnine said:

I realized that I described this wrong. The problem is that you might have generation 1 move out of Germany and give birth to generation 2. Generation 2 never sets foot in Germany but still passes German citizenship to generation 3.

IIRC there was law change a few years ago. Now there is a requirement for the 2nd generation to apply for citizenship for their kids before they turn 1 year old.

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23 hours ago, engelchen said:

 

You've just perfectly described my current (first world) problem. 

Having kids makes it exponentially more difficult...

 

By the way, are we sure that the Bundesrat is an obstacle to this? I don't see how amending the StAG falls into one of the three categories of a consent bill:

Bundesrat - Consent and objection bills

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18 minutes ago, kaffeemitmilch said:

By the way, are we sure that the Bundesrat is an obstacle to this?

 

Yes. They also have a say in this.

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Watching the Berlin Abendschau tonight -- I started wondering if the massive computer problems of the Berliner Justiz might be holding up naturalization applications. I know that they need to be sure that you have not been sentenced to a crime that would be associated with a maximum prison sentence of six months. Would the computer problems mean that Berlin applications are now impossible to process? Or do the districts get their info about prison sentences elsewhere?

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https://www.bz-berlin.de/berlin/die-einbuergerung-in-berlin-beschleunigen

 

Above is an op-ed suggesting that Berlin accelerate its naturalization processes. I'm all in favor of that, but it depresses me that the author talks about applicants waiting for up to two years to get their naturalization certificate after they submit all the paperwork. I found that more than a little upsetting, since I have been waiting for two years and seven months with no indication that the waiting will be over soon.

 

I understand that Brexit and Covid were a one-two punch for some of the Berlin districts tasked with processing naturalization applications, but I have lost all patience with the process. Are they really going to make me wait three, four, five years after submitting all the paperwork? It's just absurd. I'm afraid I will lose my job or something in the meantime and then not even have a chance anymore.

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10 minutes ago, kaffeemitmilch said:

Explain, please.

 

I think it falls under the category 3 --> https://mdi.rlp.de/fileadmin/isim/Unsere_Themen/Buerger_und_Staat/312/Anlage_Bundesrat.pdf

 

If you look at the previous law changes effecting the citizenship law, you see the below sentence " Das Bundesministerium des Innern wird ermächtigt, mit Zustimmung des Bundesrates durch ..." .

 

I am not a lawyer, but have been following the declarations of politicians, and it's always mentioned.

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Ok thanks. I do hope you're wrong :)

 

By the way, I came across this, so I'm hoping the Bundesrat, even now, could be less of an obstacle:

 

Germany: Post-Merkel government set to ease migration, citizenship rules | Germany | News and in-depth reporting from Berlin and beyond | DW | 25.11.2021

 

'Ralph Brinkhaus, parliamentary group leader of Chancellor Angela Merkel's center-right Christian Democrats (CDU), which are now in opposition after 16 years in power, was skeptical of the plans.

"We would certainly not have had this brutal openness in the area of migration," he said. "So we're quite concerned that that's going to be a pull factor for quite a lot of illegal migration."

He expressed concern about people "who came to Germany without the legal basis for being here, that they would then be allowed to stay after a certain time. I think that's very wrong."

However, earlier this year, integration ministers from Germany's 16 states had called on the federal government to ease citizenship rules. In a majority appeal, Germany's Integration Ministers' Conference (IntMK), which was initiated in 2007 under Merkel to coordinate state and federal immigration approaches, strongly urged that legal changes along the lines of the new coalition's pledges be made.'

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That's basically close to what they have now. It's not full dual citizenship when these stupid caveats are still in the paragraph. I'm a first-generation immigrant, so I'd be in the same sinking boat.

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WASHINGTON POST: HOW THE CORONAVIRUS MAKES IT IMPOSSIBLE TO RENOUNCE U.S. CITIZENSHIP

https://americansoverseas.org/en/renounce-u-s-citizenship-washington-post/

 

This is relevant to this thread, since the fact that it is impossible to renounce US citizenship is now apparently being taken into account in many jurisdictions in Germany. This means that people who previously were not able to attain German citizenship without surrendering their US citizenship because they earn enough that the $2350 renunciation fee is not considered a hardship by Germany can now argue that it is unreasonable to ask that they give up their citizenship since the US government is too slow in processing applications for renunciation. It has been two years with no progress in processing renunciation applications and the backlog is now enormous. Anyone wanting to renounce US citizenship should now budget several years for the process. This is good news for many seeking dual US-German citizenship even before German revises its law to permit dual citizenship for all applicants.

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I'm not sure, but the individual jurisdictions are dealing with the consulate in Frankfurt and should be well aware that it is currently impossible to renounce US citizenship and that any attempt to do so would be met with a delay that could be several years. I can tell you that in my case, the naturalization authority representative brought the point up with me, not the other way around.

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16 minutes ago, kaffeemitmilch said:

What official document would one use to prove this?

 

The standard procedure is that the applicant files the renunciation paperwork and follows up every 3 months (preferably with proof that the effort is being made). After 2 years it is possible to receive German citizenship without renouncing under the current rules.

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I guess it really does depend on the jurisdiction. Some of the German naturalization authorities might just acknowledge the reality of the situation and approve the application with no waiting, and some might force you to make a sincere effort to renounce for two years. It likely depends a bit on the political leanings of the individual government -- do they like dual citizenship, or do they want to prevent it with all measures available to them?

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1 minute ago, Berlinexpatnine said:

some might force you to make a sincere effort to renounce for two years.

 

This is actually what the law requires. Only once that it has been established over a prolonged period of time will the authorities recognise that it is generally not possible. 

 

1 minute ago, Berlinexpatnine said:

It likely depends a bit on the political leanings of the individual government -- do they like dual citizenship, or do they want to prevent it with all measures available to them?

 

It actually has a lot to do with the competence of the people processing the application and their ability to understand and adhere to the law.

 

 

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