How to get German Citizenship and retain (dual) US Citizenship

591 posts in this topic

Maybe the Entbuerokratisierungskommission, commission to reduce burocracy, is planning to help reduce the complicatedness of applying, then existing staff could deal with more applicants %)

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11 hours ago, murphaph said:

They'll need to do more than just change the rules. They'll need far more people processing the applications. Even with the current restrictive regime, it takes two years in many parts of the country. It's a joke.

 

It would require a fundamental change of responsibilities between federal and state administrative powers; don't forget that although citizenship is a federal law, applications filed within German are processed by either state or municipal employees. Since the federal government have no authority to dictate staffing levels to other levels of government, I don't know how the federal government can speed up the process at the local level.

 

Perhaps they should also increase the financial requirements and language requirements. 

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1 hour ago, kaffeemitmilch said:

The question is, when they will change the law. In the Frankfurter Rundschau it's written that it is high up in the list ('weit oben': Koalitionsvertrag von Rot-Grün-Gelb: Die Pläne der neuen Ampel-Regierung | Politik (fr.de) ), so that gives me hope. I'm just not sure when to expect it exactly.

 

I would imagine it would be quite a vote-getter for the coalition parties. Not enough to swing a national election or anything, but cities where there are a lot of migrants who can take up dual citizenship after 5 years (or even 3 years!!!) could make an impact on local elections. This in addition to lowering the voting age to 16 probably doesn't do the CDU any favours in future elections.

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A lot of immigrants vote far more conservatively than is widely assumed. I would include myself in that statement :-)

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1 minute ago, murphaph said:

A lot of immigrants vote far more conservatively than is widely assumed. I would include myself in that statement :-)

Booooooo! Hehe. You are indeed correct, though.

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5 minutes ago, murphaph said:

A lot of immigrants vote far more conservatively than is widely assumed. I would include myself in that statement :-)

 

For those who have been explicitly denied the opportunity to acquire German citizenship under threat of having to renounce their previous citizenship, I wonder how many identify with CDU. Especially those of non-white backgrounds. The CDU is about to go soul-searching, and it's probably not going to end up in a very nice place, considering factions of it were already courting the voters it had lost to the AfD.

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Somewhat interesting, I wonder how many people just want an EU passport so they can move and live elsewhere in the EU? In Berlin at least, I know quite a few people in that camp. I'll probably head to Amsterdam or Lisbon for a bit after picking up the German passport, tbh.

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I wouldn't say too many in that camp as it would be far easier to go somewhere else like Ireland and get citizenship after 5 years. English speaking country, plenty of jobs, dual citizenship allowed. I did know a few South Africans at work that came to Ireland in the late 90's with that aim.

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Just now, murphaph said:

I wouldn't say too many in that camp as it would be far easier to go somewhere else like Ireland and get citizenship after 5 years. 

 

You can tell you're an EU national who has never had to try to get visas in EU countries. Without question, Germany (and specifically Berlin) is the easiest country in Europe for non-EU nationals to get work permits, even with a total lack of hard skills. I cannot count the number of people I've met here who snuck in through freelance and artist visas, worked under the table in professions outside their visa's scope in the first three years, and then switched over to an unlimited visa. Try doing that in Ireland, France, Netherlands, etc. There's a reason Berlin is such a hotspot for non-EU nationals, and it's not because it's easy to find housing. It's easy af to get a visa (or was when I got mine and no checks at all were done, and I got three years in 30 minutes flat). That does not happen in other EU countries.

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7 minutes ago, murphaph said:

I wouldn't say too many in that camp as it would be far easier to go somewhere else like Ireland and get citizenship after 5 years. English speaking country, plenty of jobs, dual citizenship allowed. 

 

I actually considered that. However, are salaries not much lower than Germany? Even taking into account the lower tax rate? The cost of living (especially rent) also seems much higher.

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14 minutes ago, engelchen said:

 

I actually considered that. However, are salaries not much lower than Germany? Even taking into account the lower tax rate? The cost of living (especially rent) also seems much higher.

Yeah this does indeed seem to be the case. Germany seems to be the Goldilocks country, with decent enough wages and low costs. For all its problems, I couldn't objectively justify moving elsewhere with my current skills and salary. Of course, that's if I'm objective. Subjectively, I'd like a change :)

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I wonder what will happen to all of us in the meantime who have applications for citizenship that are being held up due to multi-citizenship requests (as well as Covid)? I've been waiting 30 months now and was told that the Berlin interpretation of the law would mean I would need to give up US citizenship. I now foresee being turned down for dual citizenship, only to have multicitizenship then passed by the new government, forcing me to get in line again and apply from scratch.

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By the way, here is one of the key passages of the coalition agreement regarding naturalization:

 

Wir schaffen ein modernes Staatsangehörigkeitsrecht. Dafür werden wir die Mehrfachstaatsangehörigkeit ermöglichen und den Weg zum Erwerb der deutschen Staatsangehörigkeit vereinfachen. Eine Einbürgerung soll in der Regel nach fünf Jahren möglich sein, bei besonderen Integrationsleistungen nach drei Jahren. Eine Niederlassungserlaubnis soll nach drei Jahren erworben werden können. In Deutschland geborene Kinder ausländischer Eltern werden mit ihrer Geburt deutsche Staatsbürgerinnen bzw. Staatsbürger, wenn ein Elternteil seit fünf Jahren einen rechtmäßigen gewöhnlichen Aufenthalt im Inland hat. Für zukünftige Generationen prüfen wir, 3980 wie sich ausländische Staatsbürgerschaften nicht über Generationen vererben.

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The United States has rules that require a foreign-born child to live a certain number of years in the United States between certain years of their lives as children or as adults in order to pass on their US citizenship to their children.

 

I'm guessing that Germany hasn't gotten this nailed down and is allowing the grandchildren of Germans to claim citizenship despite these grandchildren never having lived in Germany. That was the way the "citizenship by declaration" law was written.

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1 hour ago, engelchen said:

 

I actually considered that. However, are salaries not much lower than Germany? Even taking into account the lower tax rate? The cost of living (especially rent) also seems much higher.

I guess it depends where you live. Dublin is expensive for sure. But if you can stick it out for 5 years you can get an EU passport without having to surrender your other citizenships. I know a number of Germans who moved to Ireland and would never come back here simply because they prefer the mentality over there. That same mentality often drove me nuts, so it is often a case of the grass being greener etc.

 

I think for single people especially it would be an option, but the cost of childcare is very high so without a family to help with that, it can drain a lot of the salary of one partner. There are a LOT of foreigners in Ireland (25% of births are to non-Irish mothers) so it looks like it's a viable option for many. 

 

But I digress, I just didn't think that all that many people would be in Germany just to get an EU passport but heck, as pointed out above I'm EU so maybe not the best person to be passing comment.

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1 hour ago, Berlinexpatnine said:

I wonder what will happen to all of us in the meantime who have applications for citizenship that are being held up due to multi-citizenship requests (as well as Covid)? I've been waiting 30 months now and was told that the Berlin interpretation of the law would mean I would need to give up US citizenship. I now foresee being turned down for dual citizenship, only to have multicitizenship then passed by the new government, forcing me to get in line again and apply from scratch.

If I was in your shoes I would drag my feet in any request for documentation etc. to try to prolong the process until the new laws are enacted. 

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2 hours ago, Berlinexpatnine said:

The United States has rules that require a foreign-born child to live a certain number of years in the United States between certain years of their lives as children or as adults in order to pass on their US citizenship to their children.

 

I'm guessing that Germany hasn't gotten this nailed down and is allowing the grandchildren of Germans to claim citizenship despite these grandchildren never having lived in Germany. That was the way the "citizenship by declaration" law was written.

I realized that I described this wrong. The problem is that you might have generation 1 move out of Germany and give birth to generation 2. Generation 2 never sets foot in Germany but still passes German citizenship to generation 3.

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Ok so I did understand it right. I just found it odd that this was included in the agreement. It doesn't seem to me that passing on citizenship that way has been a contentious issue.

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