How to get German Citizenship and retain (dual) US Citizenship

632 posts in this topic

16 hours ago, Metall said:

 

What other grounds! Please enlighten me, I want dual citizenship, too!

I also find this interesting, since it has bearing on my case as well. Berlin for now has decided that my dependents all have the right to dual citizenship, since they earn very little money, while I must give up US citizenship because I earn the money for the family, making the renunciation fee not a hardship for me. They also are counting my entire income as belonging entirely to me and not acknowledging that I have legal obligations to my dependents that would reduce the amount of my disposable income to under the dual citizenship limit. Apparently Baden-Wurttemberg made a completely different decision in this regard, allowing the sole breadwinner to get dual citizenship because he had such high obligations to his dependents that the renunciation fee would be a hardship.

In my case, this obviously can't be settled outside of administrative court. I have a fantasy of taking my case to the Verfassungsgericht to force Germany to establish a single precedent that applies to all of Germany. Of course, they could rule against me and then I will have ruined it for everyone.

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Now I'm concerned that there will be an avalanche of new "citizens by declaration" applications competing with the people inside Germany who are trying to get their citizenship:

 

https://www.bva.bund.de/SharedDocs/Downloads/DE/Buerger/Ausweis-Dokumente-Recht/Staatsangehoerigkeit/Einbuergerung/Ermessen/EER_Merkblatt_englisch.pdf?__blob=publicationFile&v=2

 

This is all fine, but what if further delays are introduced by the sheer volume of applications? There could be millions of people now asking for German citizenship on this basis.

 

I'm guessing there is another thread dealing with this new situation, but apparently a lot of people's children were excluded from citizenship after the war and now that injustice is being undone. Fair enough, but I've been waiting for 2.5 years for my application to be processed, and I'm hearing that some of these new applicants are getting their citizenship within 2 months. Why do I have to go through an overburdened local district government while these folks are processed bureaucratically on the federal level? I guess blood really is thicker than water.

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On 11/8/2021, 4:49:50, Metall said:

 

What other grounds! Please enlighten me, I want dual citizenship, too!

on the grounds I might not be able to work at my current profession in Germany if I didn't have U.S. citizenship

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45 minutes ago, DoubleDTown said:

on the grounds I might not be able to work at my current profession in Germany if I didn't have U.S. citizenship

 

Are you working at your current profession in Germany without U.S. citizenship?

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On 8.11.2021, 16:49:50, Metall said:

 

on the grounds I might not be able to work at my current profession in Germany if I didn't have U.S. citizenship

I assume he meant that he would have to give up his current job in Germany if he surrendered his US citizenship. That seems like a rock-solid reason for permitting dual citizenship.

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3 hours ago, Berlinexpatnine said:

I assume he meant that he would have to give up his current job in Germany if he surrendered his US citizenship. That seems like a rock-solid reason for permitting dual citizenship.

 

Genau richtig.

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On 10/11/2021, 08:36:10, Berlinexpatnine said:

This is all fine, but what if further delays are introduced by the sheer volume of applications? There could be millions of people now asking for German citizenship on this basis.

 

How would this cause delays? Applications from abroad all all processed by the Bundesverwaltungsamt, which is staffed by federal officials. On the hand, applications filed within Germany are processed locally by municipal/state officials.

 

On 10/11/2021, 08:36:10, Berlinexpatnine said:

I guess blood really is thicker than water.

 

In Germany? Most definitely. You just have to look at the different requirements for Germans who want to apply for a foreign citizenship while keeping their German citizenship and the much higher bar set for foreigners who want to become German without giving up their original citizenship. 

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On 12.11.2021, 14:42:52, engelchen said:

 

 

How would this cause delays? Applications from abroad all all processed by the Bundesverwaltungsamt, which is staffed by federal officials. On the hand, applications filed within Germany are processed locally by municipal/state officials.

 

 

In Germany? Most definitely. You just have to look at the different requirements for Germans who want to apply for a foreign citizenship while keeping their German citizenship and the much higher bar set for foreigners who want to become German without giving up their original citizenship. 


My application has been under consideration for 30 months, and every six months they ask me to prove my income and apparently ask some federal agencies if I or my family members have committed any crimes or run up debts or joined any terrorist organizations. I don't really know what is being clarified, I just know that more than the local district and the Berlin Senatsverwaltung is involved. I think that if the federal agencies are suddenly dealing with thousands of new inquires, they may not respond to the local districts as quickly, causing all of this to slow down even further for all of us who are getting citizenship the hard way. I've been working at this for 12 years and now the grandchildren of people who left Germany 70 years ago are at the front of the line and posting that they acquired citizenship in two months without speaking a word of German. I'm guessing that Germany wants to bring back as many Germans to solve their demographic crisis, but I get the impression that most people getting citizenship by declaration probably are wanting to live somewhere else in the EU. Lots of cheaper, sunnier and friendlier places to go to. 

 

By the way, I was also reading that about 1200 Americans per year were getting German citizenship before the Covid crisis, but that 75% of that number was based on blood or Nazi persecution. That leaves 300 by other means, which I would guess would be largely by marriage. So the number of Americans who get German citizenship in a given year not by marriage but by fulfilling the work/income requirement must be a few dozen, perhaps 50 at most. No wonder this thread isn't very active. 

On 8.11.2021, 16:49:50, Metall said:

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Just now, Berlinexpatnine said:

I think that if the federal agencies are suddenly dealing with thousands of new inquires, they may not respond to the local districts as quickly, causing all of this to slow down even further for all of us who are getting citizenship the hard way.

 

To which "federal agencies" are you referring? 

 

The BVA has nothing to do with applications from within Germany.  

 

 

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It was my impression that they some federal agencies are involved -- just to make sure that they don't assign citizenship to a known spy or terrorist or criminal. My lawyer deals with the local district, so I have no idea who is being contacted about my application, it would only make sense that some portion of the citizenship evaluation takes place on the federal level. Maybe just to check that you aren't listed on Interpol bulletins?

 

Anyway, even the BMI site has the following paragraph, and I'm guessing that they must have some way of coordinating the relevant info on a federal level:

 

Since 1 January 2000, nationality law contains a clause prohibiting naturalization when there is factual evidence of anti-constitutional, extremist or terrorist activity. Before granting citizenship, the authorities regularly check with the police, security authorities and authorities for the protection of the constitution for such evidence. 

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I actually just checked the BVA site -- apparently no checks for criminal and extremist conduct is carried out for people applying from abroad on the basis of blood? I guess I can't say for sure, but I see no reference to any sort of process like that. That might explain why the applications can be processed so quickly. And I have to admit that it would make sense, since countries can't generally go around taking away the citizenship of their own citizens just because they are criminals or terrorists.

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I copied that link yesterday and it was fine, so I think it was compromised in the meantime.

 

 

Unfortunately, I didn't make a copy of the text, and now I'm afraid to visit the site.

 

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I just increased about the security settings on my browser and then click through to the site – the page is returns something like a 404 error now, so I think hackers may have taken down the site altogether.

 

In any case, it was an SPD representative publishing a rundown of how quickly naturalization applications are being processed depending on district. Most important info: the average is 4 to 6 months but Pankow is 18-22 months, and since the info is a year old, it is likely that the situation has gotten even worse. So the 30 months I have been waiting is par for the course. The specific reason given is that too many UK citizens have been applying for citizenship in the Pankow district and there are not nearly enough people processing the applications.

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5 minutes ago, Berlinexpatnine said:

I just increased about the security settings on my browser and then click through to the site – the page is returns something like a 404 error now, so I think hackers may have taken down the site altogether.

 

In any case, it was an SPD representative publishing a rundown of how quickly naturalization applications are being processed depending on district. Most important info: the average is 4 to 6 months but Pankow is 18-22 months, and since the info is a year old, it is likely that the situation has gotten even worse. So the 30 months I have been waiting is par for the course. The specific reason given is that too many UK citizens have been applying for citizenship in the Pankow district and there are not nearly enough people processing the applications.

 

The internet never forgets.

Here you go: https://web.archive.org/web/20210615151918/https://www.clara-west.de/content/schriftliche-anfrage-aktuellen-entwicklung-wartezeit-termin-antragstellung-erwerb-deutsche-0

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Very exciting stuff, indeed! I wonder what criteria will be for the 3-year naturalisation? I've already been here for 5, so I'll just apply the normal route, but citizenship after 3 years is incredibly progressive.

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They'll need to do more than just change the rules. They'll need far more people processing the applications. Even with the current restrictive regime, it takes two years in many parts of the country. It's a joke.

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