How to get German Citizenship and retain (dual) US Citizenship

421 posts in this topic

@cybil Ah, that sucks. I hate that smaller skills scam a set of tests and then act like their certificate means anything. It's probably the proctoring and external examiners that were missing. I'm sorry.

 

On the plus side, the money is the only issue. You'll do just fine. Don't you worry about it.

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I live in Bonn and I’m wondering if anyone here can help with my situation. I just spoke to the Beamte in charge of my Einbürgerung process and he said I meet all the requirements (Einbürgerungstest, B2 certificate, sufficient salary...) but that I have to give up my American citizenship because NRW doesn’t allow any exemptions to the dual citizenship rule. He said other Bundesländer have exemptions, but not NRW. I thought this was a national law/rule but maybe I’m mistaken. Any ideas what my next step should be (I called for an appointment in April and got one early next year so I’ve got a little time).

 

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5 hours ago, kgg said:

I live in Bonn and I’m wondering if anyone here can help with my situation. I just spoke to the Beamte in charge of my Einbürgerung process and he said I meet all the requirements (Einbürgerungstest, B2 certificate, sufficient salary...) but that I have to give up my American citizenship because NRW doesn’t allow any exemptions to the dual citizenship rule. He said other Bundesländer have exemptions, but not NRW. I thought this was a national law/rule but maybe I’m mistaken. Any ideas what my next step should be (I called for an appointment in April and got one early next year so I’ve got a little time).

 

Use TT search- many threads/ posts on this.  Those US who managed to keep their US seem to have shown financial hardship. But maybe NRW is very hard and fast about it.

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Quote

NRW doesn’t allow any exemptions to the dual citizenship rule. He said other Bundesländer have exemptions, but not NRW.

 

Quite a bit is up to the Beamter who reviews your case, but this sounds like utter crap.

Many countries will not allow their citizens to renounce (see below) yet I know many Germans who emigrated from one of these and are now "dual" citizens. I have a hard time believing that in the entire NRW - none emigrated from any of the countries below.

 

  • Morocco 
  • Argentina 
  • Costa Rica
  • Dominican Republic
  • Ecuador
  • Guatemala
  • Haiti
  • Honduras
  • Mexico
  • Nicaragua
  • Niger
  • Panama
  • Qatar
  • Tonga
  • Uruguay
  • Vatican
  • Yemen
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30 minutes ago, Jack Schitte said:

 

Quite a bit is up to the Beamter who reviews your case, but this sounds like utter crap.

 

It depends, the post never mentioned how much he earns. Perhaps there is no legal loophole for him.

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I’ve looked at several threads and it seems like it would be safer to have a few more financial reasons in addition to the cost of giving up citizenship. I’ll have to do a little more research in this area and would welcome any general ideas.

 

I don’t think the Beamter meant that dual citizenship was a problem, only that I couldn’t use the financial hardship loophole to get it. I’ll have to find out how NRW defines unzumutbare Bedinungen.

 

Brutto income is about 1,500 euros/month so I think it’s in the goldilocks zone.

 

And many thanks to all the posters who have encouraged fighting for this. I was feeling a little down yesterday but there’s a bit of hope now!

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On 5.3.2019, 18:36:21, cybil said:

Good questions, I have no answers. I have a further question related to social security payout: apparently your social security payout is based on your last 10 years of work. Does this mean the last 10 years of work in America, before moving to Germany, or last 10 years of work in the later in life home, Germany? 

hey  cybil, you can go online and see what the US has for you in terms of social security. I think it is based on your contribution. They used to send a statement every year, not sure if I have seen mine in a few years.

Also the Deutsche Rentenversicherung, which you probably pay into, has people who will sit down and talk to you about your german and US pension. You just have to find the right people there, and bring all possible documentation. And book months in advance.

 

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On 7.8.2019, 19:40:24, mako1 said:

hey  cybil, you can go online and see what the US has for you in terms of social security. I think it is based on your contribution. They used to send a statement every year, not sure if I have seen mine in a few years.

Also the Deutsche Rentenversicherung, which you probably pay into, has people who will sit down and talk to you about your german and US pension. You just have to find the right people there, and bring all possible documentation. And book months in advance.

 

I'm still waiting for my first Deutsche Rentenversichrung statement, having worked over 7 years here and having filled out all the papers they required over two years ago. I called last year to check on the status of that and heard only 'it's being worked on.' That was a year ago. I can well imagine it taking months to get an appointment to talk with anyone there. Ha! I do get my Social Security statements every few years. 

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You can get your SocSec online now. https://www.ssa.gov/

They will send you a letter to register, probably, for your first time. And then they will have your address and may send you the statements but what you want to know is there (or didn't want to know).

Deutsche Rentenversicherung? I think it might also be online. Check the other threads.

https://www.deutsche-rentenversicherung.de/DRV/DE/Online-Dienste/online-dienste_node.html

 

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Update on using the financial hardship for dual citizenship (US/German).

I applied in January of this year, turning in all required papers at that time. It took the NRW powers that be til June to send me a letter stating that my B1 test wasn't a telc and I needed to send the results of a new B1 test to them as well as now my husband's latest Steuerbescheid (previously not required at the local Rathaus, which, by the way, approved my B1 test which turned out not to be telc).

 

As the VHS was then closed til September, it took til October to get my B1 test results squared away and mailed off, along with the husband's tax info, to make it a packet that gave them what they wanted all at once. In two weeks, I heard back from the local office and heard that although they had the last three of my pay stubs from 2018 as required back in January, and my husbands Steuerbescheid, too much time had lapsed and now they want my latest three stubs again but not his 2018 tax paper rather now his first quartal of 2019. Not even his last three pay stubs.

 

Sigh.

 

But will gather and send.

 

So be aware that if 'too much time' lapses between the start of your application and it drags on, you may have to send in more recent information at least in regards to your income status. Apparently they DO/CAN pull in your partner's income to use as a deciding factor too. Although we have Gutertrennung (haven't mentioned it to them yet but can also send a copy of that, if needed)and, don't together ever make the 2,350 USD in any given month. 

 

Sigh. 

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On 11/15/2019, 12:07:29, cybil said:

 

Cybil, they are messing with you, there is nowhere any specific requirement that the B1 be TELC standards, that is absurd -- the B1 I used was from 1984. In your case, I would have suggested finding a good pro bono lawyer and brought him or her to every subsequent meeting, as this bureaucrat you are dealing with is clearly inventing reasons to not grant you citizenship.

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8 hours ago, pianostar69 said:

Cybil, they are messing with you, there is nowhere any specific requirement that the B1 be TELC standards, that is absurd -- the B1 I used was from 1984. In your case, I would have suggested finding a good pro bono lawyer and brought him or her to every subsequent meeting, as this bureaucrat you are dealing with is clearly inventing reasons to not grant you citizenship.

My husband got on the phone back at the bureaucrat and asked that they not simply call requesting more information be sent them by Email but rather send their request  per post and signed. Previous request for information was per post and signed after all. That was on Wednesday. No letter has appeared in our mailbox. 

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On 16.11.2019, 12:28:41, pianostar69 said:

the B1 I used was from 1984.

 

According to this articleCommon European Framework of Reference for Languages was developed between 1989 and 1996, and recommended by the European Coouncil to assess language ability since November 2001. 

 

So, what you used should be something else.

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On 3/2/2017, 8:50:21, kaffeemitmilch said:

I got a letter from the consulate - just write them an email requesting it, and it will be in your postbox within the week.

 

I also did get a letter from the consulate, auf deutsch, that the local Buergeramt accepted.  But it was really pulling teeth to get it.  Twice Berlin USCS wrote me an email in English confirming the fee and saying the Buergeramt could contact them via email for questions.  After my third request, Berlin apparently referred my request to a "Passport & Citizenship Unit" in Frankfurt which sent me a letter auf deutsch confirming the U.S. fee for relinquishing.

 

 

consulate letter.jpg

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On 22/01/2017, 21:08:05, kaffeemitmilch said:

Well, AND that our kids have dual citizenship NO QUESTIONS ASKED, but we? Can we claim hypocrisy as a reason? We could call it inconsistency. Surely, the Germans would want to avoid THAT.

 Hey @cybil congrats! Can you please share everything you had to do? How was the application process, etc? It seemed stressful. I’m now in B2 and will apply for the citizenship early next year and will try to go for dual citizenship. I have my first appointment to speak with the Einbürgerungbüro in the next months but I’m kind of nervous reading everything here. If you have any topics I should bring up, please let me know! I’m hoping this will work out!!!! Congrats again!!

 

 

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I’ve been through this whole thread and probably every court decision pertaining the dual citizenship situation (I have access to Beck Online and Juris) but couldn’t find an answer.

 

Maybe one of you know the answer or have experience:

 

Can you apply prior to fulfilling a requirement in an effort to get ahead of the long waiting period? As in “request to be naturalized by date X”, in my case when I’ve been legally in Germany for 3 years since I’m married to a German?


I live in Hamburg FYI

 

Also, yes, I’ll be going for the renunciation fee loophole. What struck me is that on the Hamburg application form you cannot check “want to keep other citizenship” or anything. Instead, you have to confirm with signature that you are giving up your other citizenship, else you pretty much cannot Hand in your application. 
 

This already looks like the Behörde in Hamburg will be a huge hustle tbh...

 

Also can’t believe every state/city can pretty much do whatever they want and interpret the law as they see fit.

 

I read a court decision by an OLG forcing their own Ausländeramt to naturalize a Greek applicant who wanted to retain his Greek citizenship, smth that is utterly and clearly allowed by the StAG, which they refused. They refused the appeal and the Amtsgericht dismissed his law suite in first instance. All of them unlawfully refusing his claim until he sued and sued and sued. Mind = Blown.

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26 minutes ago, Loganfive said:

What struck me is that on the Hamburg application form you cannot check “want to keep other citizenship” or anything. Instead, you have to confirm with signature that you are giving up your other citizenship, else you pretty much cannot Hand in your application. 

 

This already looks like the Behörde in Hamburg will be a huge hustle tbh...


Here’s the excerpt from the form:

 

Hamburg Form p. 7

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11 hours ago, Loganfive said:


 

This already looks like the Behörde in Hamburg will be a huge hustle tbh...

 

 

Absolutely no hassle in Hamburg. Extremely easy, as long as you meet all the requirements...3 years is too early...

 

If you need more info regarding Hamburg you can contact me.

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