How to get German Citizenship and retain (dual) US Citizenship

388 posts in this topic

On 1/29/2019, 10:32:13, germericanteacher said:

 

I would also be happy to talk to a (obviously even paid) lawyer. Any resources?


Thanks in advance :)

 

 

 

I went to several lawyers all of whom theoretically specialized in this subject and found all of them unmotivated and generally useless. They each charged me for the visit, and most sent me away telling me that in my case  I would not be successful.

 

The rule is not that you have to earn less than a fixed amount, or that you have debt. The rule is you must demonstrate severe financial and/or personal hardship were you to lose your USA citizenship. The "easy" way is if you don't earn much, only because the USA will charge you two months pay to renounce your citizenship. I earn well over that limit.

 

I don't wish to relate what my specific personal and/or financial hardships are, however, I was able to convince the person reviewing my case and I was successful. It took over 18 months and a bit of money having all kinds of documents translated, but it worked. Whatever your specific "hardships" are, must be documented. You probably have family in the USA or assets there. Look at the laws regarding Germans in the USA regarding taxation, length of stay in the USA, Work availability, inheritances, and Social Security treatment and that will give you a start on how to build your case. 

 

There are other exemptions for people whose parents or grandparents were forced out of Germany or lost their citizenship due to the Nazi Regime in the 1930's and 1940's. There is an exemption if you can get a letter from a German politician on your behalf. There are other exemptions which I cannot think of offhand - but surprisingly - the attorneys did not even know of some of the exemptions which I just listed- even though I specifically visited for their expertise! (hey, everyone cough up some €€€   my fee :-)  )

 

I would love to visit each of those attorneys once again and wave my Ausweis and then ask for a refund...but they would likely charge me for even that visit.

 

Good luck...

 

 

 

 

 

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/30/2019, 1:08:01, Jack Schitte said:

 

 

I went to several lawyers all of whom theoretically specialized in this subject and found all of them unmotivated and generally useless. They each charged me for the visit, and most sent me away telling me that in my case  I would not be successful.

 

The rule is not that you have to earn less than a fixed amount, or that you have debt. The rule is you must demonstrate severe financial and/or personal hardship were you to lose your USA citizenship. The "easy" way is if you don't earn much, only because the USA will charge you two months pay to renounce your citizenship. I earn well over that limit.

 

I don't wish to relate what my specific personal and/or financial hardships are, however, I was able to convince the person reviewing my case and I was successful. It took over 18 months and a bit of money having all kinds of documents translated, but it worked. Whatever your specific "hardships" are, must be documented. You probably have family in the USA or assets there. Look at the laws regarding Germans in the USA regarding taxation, length of stay in the USA, Work availability, inheritances, and Social Security treatment and that will give you a start on how to build your case. 

 

There are other exemptions for people whose parents or grandparents were forced out of Germany or lost their citizenship due to the Nazi Regime in the 1930's and 1940's. There is an exemption if you can get a letter from a German politician on your behalf. There are other exemptions which I cannot think of offhand - but surprisingly - the attorneys did not even know of some of the exemptions which I just listed- even though I specifically visited for their expertise! (hey, everyone cough up some €€€   my fee :-)  )

 

I would love to visit each of those attorneys once again and wave my Ausweis and then ask for a refund...but they would likely charge me for even that visit.

 

Good luck...

 

 

 

 

 

 

I know you mentioned you don’t want to share your situation but it would be vastly helpful to people in this thread with no chance at getting a hardship exception based on income. I haven’t actually ever come across someone online that managed to naturalize while keeping US citizenship without going this route. If you’ve actually found a way, we’d be eternally grateful to you for sharing how exactly.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are definitely other ways, but they seem to be harder and more case-by-case. It looks like it is removed now, but one that comes to mind is in the presentation that used to be here https://www.expath.de/getting-german-citizenship/ (looks like it is removed now), the person who ran the seminar explained that she kept US citizenship while obtaining German because she was considering starting a branch of Expath in the US. It took longer to process than normal (18 months), but eventually went through. It is unclear if business interests in the US are enough (and if so how those need to be demonstrated) or if it needs to be something beneficial to Germany specifically as it was in this case.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Ben21 said:

 

I know you mentioned you don’t want to share your situation but it would be vastly helpful to people in this thread with no chance at getting a hardship exception based on income. I haven’t actually ever come across someone online that managed to naturalize while keeping US citizenship without going this route. If you’ve actually found a way, we’d be eternally grateful to you for sharing how exactly.

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I’d really like to be specific but I don’t want to share my personal hardships with the world. I am even logged in with an alias as I’m not sure I want everyone to know. I posted initially as there is quite a bit of misinformation here which I wanted to correct. (My Name isn’t really Jack Shit)

 

Some tips:

 

Financial or personal hardship is the rule. The rule is not earning too little or how much debt you have. The decision of whether your personal hardship is severe enough to warrant dual citizenship is up to the presidium in your district. I do suggest making your argument in German, and then have a German correct any grammar errors.

 

Let’s say you are now German because you gave up your USA citizenship. What could that do to hurt you?

 

There are visitation limits to the USA for Germans. You might have imperative reasons to visit and the USA can stop you. I’m reluctant to air my laundry here but I have a number of them. Use your own.

 

You might have a job that requires USA citizenship. You could lose your job.

 

Social Security, which you have paid into for a long time has different rules for non-citizens 

 

IRA’s and Inheritances are treated differently as a German, as are investments.

 

Maybe you are the only person who can care fore an elderly or sick relative?

 

You will need to prove the circumstances which you use as your reasons.

 

You should also combine this with reasons you need to be German..

 

Just a reminder - I was denied dual citizenship but filed an appeal which I later won. 

 

I hope I helped you all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, Jack Schitte said:

I hope I helped you all.

 

Thanks a bunch for the tips! It may definitely be worth a try.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9.2.2019, 16:27:53, Jack Schitte said:

Social Security, which you have paid into for a long time has different rules for non-citizens 

 

IRA’s and Inheritances are treated differently as a German, as are investments.

 

 

I was surprised to see these comments.  Can anyone describe further what differences there are for U.S. citizens versus non-citizens with regard to:

(1) Social Security payouts

(2) IRA payouts

 

thanks in advance.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good questions, I have no answers. I have a further question related to social security payout: apparently your social security payout is based on your last 10 years of work. Does this mean the last 10 years of work in America, before moving to Germany, or last 10 years of work in the later in life home, Germany? 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now