How to get German Citizenship and retain (dual) US Citizenship

316 posts in this topic

Just a side note: You do not properly understand the terms Brutto and Netto.

What you think is your gross income is in fact your turnover (= Umsatz).

Brutto means your income before income tax and social security contributions, Netto your income after paying income tax and social security contributions.

 

In both cases the state is interested in the person's income before income tax and social security contributions, i.e. his Brutto, which for a freelancer is his profit, and for an employee his Bruttogehalt.

3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, PandaMunich said:

In both cases the state is interested in the person's income before income tax and social security contributions, i.e. his Brutto, which for a freelancer is his profit, and for an employee his Bruttogehalt.


Thanks for that, it would have been less stress for me had I understood that clearly before turning in the application!

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, pianostar69 said:

have a net income of less than $2,350 per month

 

Don't you mean at least?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No, I meant less than $2,350, you cannot earn over $2350 per month or you do not qualify. They apparently don't want people with a higher income using this reason to get dual citizenship. Of course if you don't earn enough to pay taxes and maintain a residence permit then you have other problems altogether.

In response to a question where the figure of 1,278 euros comes from, it is from a flyer from the Beauftragte der Bundesregierung für Migration, Flüchtlinge und Integration. Here is a link to the PDF, see page 20.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I never thought that having too much money would be a problem (unless you got it through dodging taxes!)

3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It gets worse. If your wife/husband is working the other income counts as well. They will take in account the family income and then you have to prove that giving up your original citizenship burdens you with at least 10% of the total income or something like that. At least that is what I was told several years ago when I wanted to apply for it.

Pretty silly. You would think that they would prefer economically successful people to become Germans, but no.

4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Krieg said:

Pretty silly. You would think that they would prefer economically successful people to become Germans, but no.

?

Do you claim that “economically successful people” never give up their original citizenship? A very dubious claim. This 2000 USD trick is quite recent. For many years US government charged a reasonable sum and you couldn't keep your US citizenship at all, so both „economically successful“ and „economically losers“ suffered.

 

I would give you an even more interesting fact: refugees are allowed to keep their citizenship.

 

Germans have loyalty paranoia and do not really want anyone to have dual citizenship. But they have to introduce these exceptions for various reasons.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The length of residence required reduces from 8 to 3 years if you are married, at least there is that advantage.

Germany has no problems allowing "economically successful* US citizens to get German citizenship. They just have to give up their US passports to do it.

 

Personally I am glad that it allows honest working folks to have that chance -- if money were everything I'd have stayed in New York, haha.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would be interested to know your reasons to have dual citizenship rather than simply giving up US citizenship and taking German.    If the reasons are private, then no problem.  

 

It would also be interesting to know if there are tax implications.    For example, if you have bank interest, stock sales or real estate transactions, who gets paid first, the US or Germany ?

 

 

 

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, SA618 said:

I would be interested to know your reasons to have dual citizenship rather than simply giving up US citizenship and taking German.    If the reasons are private, then no problem.  

 

It would also be interesting to know if there are tax implications.    For example, if you have bank interest, stock sales or real estate transactions, who gets paid first, the US or Germany ?

 

I am not American, but I would not give my citizenship up because it is my citizenship.  And because I have properties over there and it will become a mess if I am not a citizen there anymore.

 

Tax implications is actually not a big deal, it is all very clearly defined and it does not actually have really much to do with dual citizenship.   In my case I have to file taxes in both countries.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, SA618 said:

I would be interested to know your reasons to have dual citizenship rather than simply giving up US citizenship and taking German.    If the reasons are private, then no problem.  

The most simple reason is: to save money and the bureaucratic hassle.

Conspiracy theory reason: to prevent US border security from banning you into the country because you didn't support Donald Trump on Toytown Germany forum.

 

On the other hand, keeping old citizenship requires constantly renewing the second passport, which is the hassle as well.

4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

LMAO - despite some of the things you type on here, yourkeau, you might be rational.  :lol:

 

A passport is a means to an end and a way into a different set of regulations.    I am not sentimental.    

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You need not constantly renew your other passport unless you want to use it, though you need the US one to enter the US. I would just get both. It's a little money every ten years. Big deal. Hopefully the validity of each is staggered so one has a valid travel documents essentially at all times. A passport is indeed just an advantage, and need not be all mushy bullshit nationalist sentiment.

 

By the way, as far as I know, the 3 year option for naturalisation for spouses of Germans is not a right, but given at the discretion of the Einbuergerungstelle. Am I right?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I gave up my American one to become German, however, it was free back then. Even though I did it because being German outweighed being American in my situation, getting out of US tax obligations and not to have to deal with the paperwork and frustrations with FACTA for investments here was a positive.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, kaffeemitmilch said:

By the way, as far as I know, the 3 year option for naturalisation for spouses of Germans is not a right, but given at the discretion of the Einbuergerungstelle. Am I right?


It appears the 3 year option may not be written into law -- but neither is the rule allowing you to keep the native passport if the country requires more than 1278 euros to relinquish it -- rather it is the standard practice as accepted by the Beauftragte der Bundesregierung für Migration, Flüchtlinge und Integration. This means that if your local Einbürgerungsstelle refuses to process your application, they are violating the standard practice at the federal level, which I would assume would be unacceptable and certainly worth talking to their boss about or getting a lawyer into the mix. See page 27 of the BBMFI broschure: 

 

https://www.bundesregierung.de/Content/Infomaterial/BPA/IB/Die%20deutsche%20Staatsb%C3%BCrgerschaft.pdf;jsessionid=5D4680ADE222A163AB3533E60A085205.s3t1?__blob=publicationFile&v=18

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm about to try this myself soon, just finished writing up my Lebenslauf including list of everywhere I've ever lived in my entire life!

 

My husband earns quite a lot of money, and I'm worried about that tripping me up. So before I throw 250 Euros out the window, I've been trying to get ducks in a row.

 

I called the Ausländerbehörde in Hamburg and in Pinneberg (Schleswig-Holstein) and explained my issue. I learned that the individual states in Germany are allowed to more narrowly define what "income" entails if they want. And that here in Schleswig-Holstein they have never defined what income means, so it means my personal income from working, which is less than $2350.

 

The guy in Schleswig-Holstein had to call back twice because this is something he's never had on his desk before. He looked through their internal manuals and asked a couple of supervisors before giving the final answer that my husband's income will not be counted. He will also definitely be the guy who interviews me and processes my application, so I'm guessing my chances are looking pretty good. My husband is not convinced and wants me to come up with more reasons.

 

So here are two ideas of mine:

1. My daughter has US-German dual citizenship because she inherited these from her parents. If/when we have a second child, the second child will not inherit US citizenship if I have to renounce. I am hoping I can use this as a reason why I should keep my US citizenship - to avoid my children from having unequal circumstances in life, good or bad.

 

2. This one I need help with. If my daughter is American and I'm not, I'm wondering if there are any ways I would have less of an ability to help her in any way regarding her citizenship. If she is too young to be allowed to renounce her US citizenship, then it can be assumed that she needs a sort of adult steward of her citizenship. And am I in a better position to do this if I keep my US citizenship? Renewing her passport at the embassy comes to mind, she can't go in alone and I'm not sure nonAmericans are allowed in that area. Grasping at straws here, I know!

 

Thoughts anyone?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice. Those are two interesting options to consider, and I would throw them in. You never know. I did think of the second one myself. I mean, if my child decides to live in the US in future, I/we wouldn't be able to join her if we wanted to! But, your first option is also interesting. I hadn't considered it. Thanks for that.

 

Given that the guy you spoke to is generally amiable to the income issue, it wouldn't hurt to make it easier for him.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wackeldackel, you get an A for effort, but I'd imagine that in response to 1), you'd be told that you might never have another kid or should then wait to apply for German citizenship until you're done having kids and in response to 2) non-US citizens are allowed into Munich consulate (e.g., for interviews for a visa or to accompany a US citizen spouse to be interviewed for the application of Report of Foreign Birth Abroad), so I'd imagine that they are in Berlin or Hamburg as well. There are also a number of people who have US citizenship because they were born in the US while their non-citizen parents were working or studying there. The income loophole looks good, though. 

 

Sure, the lack of dual citizenship for most US citizens that naturalize as Germans is unjust, especially when one considers all that the US has done for Germany. 

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Conquistador said:

Sure, the lack of dual citizenship for most US citizens that naturalize as Germans is unjust, especially when one considers all that the US has done for Germany. 

Well, AND that our kids have dual citizenship NO QUESTIONS ASKED, but we? Can we claim hypocrisy as a reason? We could call it inconsistency. Surely, the Germans would want to avoid THAT.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now