Shoplifting case effect on acquiring citizenship

[gettruth 1]

Dear TTers,

 

I sincerely ask for your help.
I already searched for similar posts in this forum but couldn't find.

 

My situation is following:

I was so stupid and got caught in shoplifting an article worth 40€ (It happened in 2013). The police have taken me & collected my details and told me that I will get a letter from the court and I have to follow the court instructions.

Few days later I received a letter from court that I can settle the matter by paying 150€ to charity.

I've accepted it and paid 150€ in time and submitted the payment proofs to the court.

All these things happened in September 2013.

My stupidity has caused me a lot of pain and many sleepless nights.

That was my first and last act of shoplifting (my stupidity) and I never repeated it again (and will never do it again too).

 

I'm herewith attaching the papers I got from the court.

Please see the underlined sentences (in red color) in the below documents and it says that "Sie gelten als nicht vorbestraft und der Vorfall wird nicht in ein Führungszeugnis aufgenommen." and "Bei Erfüllung der Auflage kann die Tat nicht mehr als Vergehen verfolgt werden."

 

So My questions here are

Am I convicted as a criminal? (Because it says that I am "nicht vorbestraft")

And as well, it says "der Vorfall wird nicht in ein Führungszeugnis aufgenommen. Bei Erfüllung der Auflage kann die Tat nicht mehr alsn Vergehen verfolgt werden."

And I have fulfilled it with in time.

So would there be a criminal record?

 

I am now applying for the Citizenship.

In the application form for the "Citizenship" there is a column for

"Straftaten, Ordnungswirdigkeiten, Straf- und Ermittlungsverfahren - Ja oder Nein"

What should I write here "Ja" or "Nein"?

Wenn Ja:

1. "Angaben über Datum, erkennendes Gericht, Tatbestand und Strafmaß noch nicht getilgter Vorstrafen".

2. "Angaben über Datum, Behörde, Tatbestand und Buße bei Ordnungswirdigkeiten der letzen drei Jahre".

3. "Angaben über anhängige Strafverfahren".

4. "Angaben über anhängige oder gegen Zahlung einer Geldbuße eingestellte Ermittlungsverfahren".

 

If I am convicted as criminal and paid the fine,so my case would be falling under 1. or 2. or 3. or 4. (in the above details)?

 

Please help me to come over this confusion.

Looking forward to your help.

 

 

[trr 374]

You're all clear. There is no record ofa crime.The court had mercy on your first offence. Ianal but since there is no record of wrongdoing being filed then you have no record and no conviction. I would put “no“  down.

[gettruth 1]

Hi trr,

 

Thank you very much for your reply.

[yourkeau 6,978]

The paper says the following: if you pay 150 euro and submit payment proof to the court, the prosecutors will cancel the charges against you, there will be no criminal record and you will not be vorbestraft. Which is what happened, I assume. There is, however, some record stored at your local police station. This will not affect your citizenship application, but should you commit any more crimes in future, this record will influence the punishment (it will be more severe).

 

So, in your application the answer should be no.

 

 

[onemark 784]

I'd play safe and check this with a criminal/citizenship lawyer.

[yourkeau 6,978]

4 minutes ago, onemark said:

I'd play safe and check this with a criminal/citizenship lawyer.

Waste of money.

 

One can, to be sure, request Führungszeugnis (a paper which lists your criminal record). If FZ indeed shows some record (due to a mistake?), then a lawyer might be needed.

[sneaker 871]

Einbürgerungsbehörde can see more than what's in the Führungszeugnis.(BZRG § 41 (1) 6.). (Not implying that the incident did or did not find its way into the BZR or that it will or will not be relevant for naturalization. AFAIK 153a will not find its way into the BZR at all, only into ZStV.)

[bramble 8,834]

5 hours ago, gettruth said:

I am now applying for the Citizenship.

In the application form for the "Citizenship" there is a column for

"Straftaten, Ordnungswirdigkeiten, Straf- und Ermittlungsverfahren - Ja oder Nein"

What should I write here "Ja" or "Nein"?

Wenn Ja:

1. "Angaben über Datum, erkennendes Gericht, Tatbestand und Strafmaß noch nicht getilgter Vorstrafen".

2. "Angaben über Datum, Behörde, Tatbestand und Buße bei Ordnungswirdigkeiten der letzen drei Jahre".

3. "Angaben über anhängige Strafverfahren".

4. "Angaben über anhängige oder gegen Zahlung einer Geldbuße eingestellte Ermittlungsverfahren".

 

To be safe and to show how truthful you are, I would say "Ja" is correct and No. 2 and No. 4 would be applicable. Buße means fine and that is what happened. You were fined for an Ordnungswidrigkeit a Straftat , which I presume you paid. I would also include all the applicable paperwork with your application so they can see that you are not vorbestraft. 

[sneaker 871]

Diebstahl is not an Ordnungswidrigkeit.

[bramble 8,834]

Oh yes, you're right. It's a Straftat. Sorry. Though they keep discussing that Ladendiebstahl should be changed to Ordungswidrigkeit:

 

Aufgrund der Tatsache, dass Ladendiebstahl häufig auftritt, der Schaden zumeist gering und die Beweislage klar ist, wird immer wieder die Möglichkeit diskutiert, den Ladendiebstahl aus dem Bereich der Straftaten herauszunehmen und nur noch als Ordnungswidrigkeit zu ahnden. Hierfür spricht die damit verbundene mögliche Entlastung der Justiz. Andererseits ist so die erforderliche härtere Bestrafung von Wiederholungstätern nicht sichergestellt und beinhaltet eine Bagatellisierung des Unrechts.

[gettruth 1]

Hi All...

 

Thanks a million for your help and for your replies.

It gives me a bit relief that I'm not convicted as criminal and no criminal record (but I know, there will be some kind of database holds a record on the incident).

After reading the replies from @trr  @yourkeau I was very happy and decided to write NO in the application.

But now I couldn't decide again, after reading the other replies.

 

@sneaker You mean to say that they can also have a look at Bundeszentralregister or ZstV. Right? Whar would be your suggestion to write YES or NO in the application? How long would a record be kept in BZR or ZstV (because my incident happened before 3 years)?

 

Once again Thanks to one and all for your help.

[trr 374]

This was a transgression of youthful folly. You haven't repeated the behavior. If it were some sort of chronic criminality then I would advise to answer yes. The court showed mercy by giving you a chance to contribute to charity and to have a productive life. There is a spirit as well as technicalities  to the law. Give yourself a break.

 

 

[cb6dba 6,251]

I am sure we had a thread like this a few months ago..??

 

Unlike this one, the poster did not volunteer all the info at the start and it just went on and on.

 

To the OP, kudos for being upfront - always helps (as can be seen here).

[Heidi_DE 22]

If you are unsure then you can always contact the Einbürgerungsbehörde and simply ask.

[sneaker 871]

4 hours ago, gettruth said:

You mean to say that they can also have a look at Bundeszentralregister or ZstV. Right? Whar would be your suggestion to write YES or NO in the application? How long would a record be kept in BZR or ZstV (because my incident happened before 3 years)?

I think they can only look into BZR, not ZstV. So they won't see the incident. From the wording of the form I would think that "Ja" and field #4 would have to be filled. But is it legally required? Is it a good idea? I do not know for sure so I will refrain from giving definite advice.

[Ciano 0]

Hello sorry to bother you with my write up, I read your story yesterday and it has been given me sleepless night because our story is similar..  And now am applying also for German citizenship and I really want to know if it will affect my application..  Since yours was 2016 am hoping I will get some information from you if it affects your application or not..  Please write me as soon as possible because it really given me sleepless night..  Anyone with information cab also give information..  God bless you all @gettruth@gettruth@gettruth@gettru@gettruth@gettruth@gettruth@gettr@gettruth@gettruth@@gettru@gettruth@gettruth@gettruth@gett@gettruth@gettruth@gettruth@gettru@gettruth@gettruth@gettruth@gett@gettruth@gettruth@gettruth@gettru@gettruth@gettruth@gettruth@gettr@gettruth@gettruth@gettruth@gettru@gettruth@gettruth@gettruth@gett@gettruth@gettruth@gettruth@gettru@gettruth@gettruth@gettruth@gett

[BayrischDude 2,000]

This is merely FYI for future.

 

As you understand it or call it shoplifting, Germany has no such offence.  It is Larceny (theft).  Just to be clear.

 

There is a difference between a misdemeanor and a felony.  What you did and the decision of the court was that this was a misdemeanor.  Traffic citations are misdemeanors.  A felony in Germany is a committed crime with a minimum prison sentence of 1 year or more.  Misdemeanors are less than a year or a fine.

 

Are you a convicted criminal.  Ugly sounding sentence.  The court issued you a letter stating to settle the matter with a fine of 150€, for a 40€ theft.  So, no doubts that this is a misdemeanor.

 

To bear bad news, you are convicted and you do have a record. 

 

The court, through the state prosecutor's office, offered a fine, which you paid.  This is your admission of guilt.  When you paid, the court ruling stood.  So you do have a record.  A record of a criminal conviction as a misdemeanor.  Most like your record will be expunged in 5 years.  It could be 10, but I doubt it for such an offence.

 

Keep that in mind if every an employer asks you for a Führungszeugnis. 

 

Note:  I am not a lawyer.  I was a federal investigator for 24 years, so my knowledge is based from experience and not from attending a law school.

 

[Ciano 0]

Thanks @ BayrisDude for the information..  Mine was 100€ fine,  and it was just last year.. I didn't actually agreed to the crime because I told them it was a misunderstanding between the shop and I,  and I agree to pay the fine so that everything would end..  am married with a German and I don't want her to find out about it..  With tears ? and sorrow..  I need more information.. 

[BayrischDude 2,000]

1 hour ago, Ciano said:

 I didn't actually agreed to the crime because I told them it was a misunderstanding between the shop and I,  and I agree to pay the fine

 

Ciano, when one pays a fine, it is automatically an admission.  When you receive a parking ticket or a speeding violation and you pay the fine, it is considered an admission to the violation.  In other words, you are agreeing to the 'crime'.  Paying a fine is an admission of guilt.

 

To obtain a copy of your Führungszeugnis is near impossible for mere curiosity reasons.  As you are applying for citizenship, that might do.  There are certain criteria which allow for a Führungszeugnis free of charge.  I recommend you go to your Rathaus or Landratsamt and ask.  If you need to pay, it is between 13€ and 17€. 

 

To ease your mind a wee bit, 100€ would be considered a misdemeanor, but it depends upon the totality of the circumstances.  So if it was, say, more than 5 years ago, your record could be expunged.

 

I wish you the best of luck in the endeavor.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Ciano said:

Thanks @ BayrisDude for the information..  Mine was 100€ fine,  and it was just last year.. I didn't actually agreed to the crime

 

You did, as BayrischDude explained to you.

 

1 hour ago, Ciano said:

 

because I told them it was a misunderstanding between the shop and I,

 

To avoid hassle in the future: We know this kind of "misunderstanding", it's been discussed too often on TT. Don't put anything in your pockets or a rucksack or a bag while you are in shop – once you hide something, that is theft. It doesn't matter if you passed the checkouts or not, it's theft. Use the shopping carts or baskets that are available in the shops, don't hide anything. Never. 

 

1 hour ago, Ciano said:

 

 

  and I agree to pay the fine so that everything would end..  am married with a German and I don't want her to find out about it..  With tears ? and sorrow..  I need more information.. 

 

Your misdemeanor will not affect your citizenship application. Only pending preliminary proceedings or a penalty of more than 90 Tagessätze or more than 3 months suspended sentence would be a problem. 

 

You still have to declare the 'Eingestelltes Ermittlungsverfahren' in your application papers, see Brambles post for detail.

 

And: Work on your marriage, lying to your partner is never wise.