Non-EU spouse's income and German spouse's Hartz IV

89 posts in this topic

14 hours ago, zeino said:

I now see what you mean better. The state is ready to even look after me for as long as I'm married.

No, you seem to not have fully understood what Panda wrote. In case you´d get permanent residence the state would look after you (on Hartz IV level) even after having been divorced as long as you keep residing in Germany, i. e. potentially lifelong. That´s why there need to be some hurdles to get permanent residence. Personally, I feel that a 3 year stay (even for someone married to a German citizen) is not high enough a hurdle. Not sure though whether it´s really only 3 years as someone wrote on here (I thought it´s 8 years).

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1 hour ago, jeba said:

No, you seem to not have fully understood what Panda wrote. In case you´d get permanent residence the state would look after you (on Hartz IV level) even after having been divorced as long as you keep residing in Germany, i. e. potentially lifelong. That´s why there need to be some hurdles to get permanent residence. Personally, I feel that a 3 year stay (even for someone married to a German citizen) is not high enough a hurdle. Not sure though whether it´s really only 3 years as someone wrote on here (I thought it´s 8 years).

 

As far as I know, it's 3 years to get permanent residency if you are married to a German.  Otherwise 5 years.  The eligibility to apply for citizenship comes after 8 years.

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I may be wrong, but I believe granting permanent residency (or at least fast-tracking it) is contingent on not being dependent on state support, whether or not one is married to a German.

 

Color me harsh, but it seems to me that all these problems could be avoided if the OP's spouse would seek work. Even an entry-level position at McDonald's will pay more than Hartz IV. As LeonG and others have noted, Manpower and other temp work isn't that poorly paid either, and there are real opportunities to turn a temporary position into permanent work.

 

Unless your spouse has some crippling disability, there's no reason not to join the workforce ("I don't feel like doing temp work" isn't an excuse).

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I owe my current job and standard of living to employment agencies.

 

Way back when I first came here I started with no German and some kind of mini-job/practikum thing earning 410 a month net.

After that ended I worked for employment agencies in Berlin. Then we moved again and I worked for two employment agencies before getting a job at the company I was placed with.

 

Unless the OP tells us what area her Husband works in I can't comment if working would make it easier for him to get a better job in his area.

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I have to wonder whether the authorities would consider their marriage to be legitimate. A Turkish woman determined to protect her assets so the taxpayer supports her husband instead of herself is marrying a German man who is a chronically unemployed welfare recipient with a history of mental illness is probably going to ring some alarm bells at the Ausländeramt. It doesn't seen very plausible as a love story; it sounds more like a "green card story".

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@jeba Thank you. I understand what he says. Whether this hurdle is worth it can change from one person to other depending on everyone's circumstances I suppose. In my situation, the hurdle, beyond being whether its worth it or not, is pointless. This is because during my initial years of stay which I will spend a significant amount of time learning German - I would like to reach a good B1+ or early B2- I cannot earn money to support myself. That's why I'm trying to arrange support from my parent so that I don't have recourse to public funds. I can top this with a mini-job, a menial job - although it will be a new experience as I have only worked in office jobs- university teaching- freelance jobs related to my education. Still, despite my age, I think this can be an experience that allows me to hear more German, get familiar with German life to a degree etc. But I don't want to do this all my life as I put lots of effort and time in my education and developing my skills in more than one area. I will miss the pleasure these things provide for me. However, even if I get a job in my field in Germany, it may not be a sustainable income at first. 

 

So in my situation, even if I work in whatever I can find, receive support from my family and don't have recourse to public funds, this will not be enough to look after two people in Germany - as my boyfriend may not work. As a result, we become a Hartz Vier family. As a result, my efforts are fruitless. So why the hurdle? 

 

Also, this would bring resentment in a marriage I suppose. It wouldn't be much of an issue if this happened in my country where the total of these efforts would bring me a pleasant life but I cannot imagine this under my circumstances in Germany. Much ado about nothing really. 

 

To me, this is not worth it as my only goal is to be with my boyfriend. This can be in many countries. We are calculating costs and comparing quality of life to choose the best place with ourselves. Germany doesn't seem to be the best place at the moment and I don't believe I should change my life so radically because of his parental expectations. That's their family issue. 

 

I have told my boyfriend that I can do this for a year maybe if this will win us some time in terms of solving family issues and only to support him. But I cannot plan to do this for good because of a future-in-law's wishes. Especially doing this relying on my parent's support seems even funny to me. We can't even stay in a 14 room house on three floors where this gentleman lives alone. Fair enough, no parent has to open their house to us. At the same time, however, as a university graduate with a good MA from a good British university, I cannot be expected to live in a Hobbittown and seek menial employment or whatever I can find so that I can fully support my family and at the same time please this gentleman. Neither do I believe this is fair for any person with any skills - I mean, can't we at least move to an urban area where I would have more opportunities as the main breadwinner?  My boyfriend agrees with me actually and has decided to come with me whereever we can build a happier life - he didn't know about the "Hartz Vier Family" situation, either. He also thinks it would be very unfair to expect this life from me. We have agreed to work together in a country that's foreign to him or to both of us to a level that pleases both of us as a couple. He too wants to contribute to  our household, he has no problems with working elsewhere. He tells me about why he is bitter about Germany. I don't believe in forcing or pressuring anyone doing anything they don't wish to do. If there is another solution, we find it. If we don't, it doesn't work. That's it. 

 

So the hurdle is financially pointless as long as he doesn't work. Its not up to me or my efforts. I will not go into the hurdle as what I do does not change the situation. And no, I will not ask my parent to liquidate things that belong to her so that I can have permanent residence in Germany. No, it's not even my life goal to live in Germany and be titled to what Germany offers. 

 

Actually, I'm not even eligible for what Germany offers with or without permanent residence. The moment I lose my parent - which I hope does not happen soon- I do not get anything from Germany for 50 years because that's how long I can finance myself at Hartz Vier level without work. Permanent residence does not mean much to me other than lifting the "divorce/leave the country" burden, a psychological burden, on my marriage that would make both people uncomfortable. That's all.

 

Neither do I see living in Germany as a paradise. I will not gain anything I think is worthy through the hurdle. It seems that my skill level will decrease, my life conditions will worsen, I may face a lot of prejudice. Why should I do this to myself? I am not the immigrant profile that would think living in Germany is a lifesaver for me - neither financially or in terms of lifestyle nor culturally (based on where I "fit"). It is more of a sacrifice actually. I may see it as one or not but Germany does not add anything to my life when I live there. This even when I work to the best of my power as marriage is a thing of two and is "calculated" as such I see. I like German philosophy, literature, classical music, punk (old Toten Hosen fan here:), German contribution to the world in many things etc but the life I will have there will not match what I'm used to in any sense and I cannot see it developing me in any sense. It's not like moving to a dreamland or anything. This is so because of the particular combination of my nationality and my social class or standing where I live and my skill set. It can of course be very different for other people. It just doesn't work for me. 

 

So no, I can spare max.1.5 year of my life and that is for my BF. Not for residence in Germany.

 

But thank you for all the ideas you have provided and the time you have spent for me. I appreciate it.  

 

 

 

 

 

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I haven't read this entire thread, but if the market is large enough, I suspect you could do Turkish-English and English-Turkish translations rather than doing menial work. Just a thought.

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8 hours ago, El Jeffo said:

I may be wrong, but I believe granting permanent residency (or at least fast-tracking it) is contingent on not being dependent on state support, whether or not one is married to a German.

 

Color me harsh, but it seems to me that all these problems could be avoided if the OP's spouse would seek work. Even an entry-level position at McDonald's will pay more than Hartz IV. As LeonG and others have noted, Manpower and other temp work isn't that poorly paid either, and there are real opportunities to turn a temporary position into permanent work.

 

Unless your spouse has some crippling disability, there's no reason not to join the workforce ("I don't feel like doing temp work" isn't an excuse).

 

Exactly El Jeffo. Because of Bedarfgemenshaft, no matter what I do in the first years will suffice to ensure that we as a family will not be a burden on the state. Except my mother selling something and financing me and my partner for three years. This we don't want - my BF and I- as I don't build my life plans on throwing myself to Germany at whatever cost. I don't need this. It makes me considerably poorer even if I work - due to my education being in humanities and languages.

 

You are very right that all these would be avoided if my BF chose to work. I would get a little job, then seek better stuff (I can be employed at an international school or somewhere) and with a bit of support from my country, we would be OK. But he doesn't wish to work in what he can find, not in Germany. he is OK with working elsewhere. This I can only respect because this is him and he is not hiding this from me. It's up to me to decide. I cannot change  him. Saying OK to this at first and then asking him to start working would be very wrong of me, also not honest. And it would strain our relationship. We agree on all this actually. Basically, I felt OK with living there for his family reasons, not mine. But the balance is such that unless he contributes to our bedorfgemeinschaft with his labor and income from there, I cannot contribute to the goal of fulfilling his father's wishes.

 

Fair point to my boyfriend. When I shared the circumstances with him (as I learnt from here), he said "Nooo, we can't do this to you." I'm happy:)    

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I mean, spouses surely support each other. But I understand support like this: Say we are both working at a level that satisfies us, that doesn't torment us etc. One of us loses a job, chooses to lose a job, of course we support each other. One of us has an illness, sure we support each other. I lost my father to cancer. His was fatal right from the beginning and the treatment was mostly palliative. But if it very expensive private treatment etc, of course we would sell everything to ensure this treatment. In a marriage, you do these things. I'm not a money hungry person either. But agreeing to support someone's financial/career choices if that is Hartz Vier is not support in the way I understand it - as there isn't a need there. Likewise, for instance, I would support my spouse by working and contributing from elsewhere if he wanted a university education. That's two people supporting each other's goals. 

 

But no matter how selfish and calculating I may look to some people here, my understanding support does not include liquidating my parents' assets to support unemployment based on choice. I don't judge that choice morally. But neither do I believe in liquidating others' savings - or mine for that matter if I have them- for this. If we are anarchists or anticapitalists then we fulfill our choices by methods not based on others' capital - like opt out of the society and join a barter commune somewhere maybe? I'm not a trustafarian:) 

 

My BF doesn't want or expect this either. Hence his insistence of his Hartz Vier. That's not my insistence. I don't wish to live on it. It decreases my life standards significantly, why should I want it? I don't need it. Some people here may judge this choice. Opinions may vary. They can be political. Whatever. I cannot change a German national's mental or emotional relation to his own system and what this entails.  I either accept or reject what it brings for me. I don't wish to nag anyone to work for us because if they want to do it, they simply can. It's no biggie. I don't even know whether Hartz Vier entails health or not. The first time I heard it, I thought he was saying "hearts" with a German accent. We have no conflicts about this actually. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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23 minutes ago, Conquistador said:

I haven't read this entire thread, but if the market is large enough, I suspect you could do Turkish-English and English-Turkish translations rather than doing menial work. Just a thought.

 

Thank you for the suggestion Conquistador, I have certainly considered it. I am internationally certified and can do it from anywhere. I would love to reach B1 or B2 in German and start doing trilingual or more combinations (Heidelberg has lovely courses like this.) However, if I do this with my connections in my country, the money/time balance will be terrible because of the currency difference. I can find international employers and have looked into the German taxing system. However, I will not move an inch from my country without establishing this business properly beforehand. If something goes wrong, if I calculate something wrong, if I fall ill and cannot work, I don't want to find myself in this Hartzvier/residence trap. It may result in me working but I don't know what happens to my spouse's health insurance etc. (Whenever I say Hartz Vier, I actually think about health insurance but maybe I'm understanding that wrong.) 

 

 

 

 

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Well, you'll need a lot more than B2 German to do translation, whereas your English is presumably fluent, plus I'd imagine that there is a ton of competition (read: low rates) when it comes to the German-Turkish and Turkish-German combinations.

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8 hours ago, Smaug said:

I have to wonder whether the authorities would consider their marriage to be legitimate. A Turkish woman determined to protect her assets so the taxpayer supports her husband instead of herself is marrying a German man who is a chronically unemployed welfare recipient with a history of mental illness is probably going to ring some alarm bells at the Ausländeramt. It doesn't seen very plausible as a love story; it sounds more like a "green card story".

 

I have really started enjoying how this scammer discourse is so full of logical errors that it sounds delusional. (More psychiatrically problematic than my boyfriend at its worst actually.)

 

Logical error 1. If German authorities know that I'm determined to protect my assets, basically they know that I have assets. So I'm not eligible for Hartz Vier, and they are happy. Germany wants high level economic immigrants, you remember? They will welcome me with open arms. (Of course except when your own mayor tells you that "if you don't like hosting refugess in your town, you can leave the country." That's your problem with the liberal politics of your country, not mine. I'm not a liberal myself and can understand how embittered this can leave people of certain income levels. We have exactly the same problem here.) 

 

And actually, we don't hide assets when we apply for visas. We state them. It makes everything easier. 

 

Logical error 2: I have stated umpteen times that I do not own assets. My mother has assets. I cannot legally protect anything that is not mine. Can you? As a favour, I can ask her to liquidate something for me. A gift. I will not do that. You may have your problems with this. German authorities will not. It's wonderful that they have a better  understanding of basic property ownership. 

 

Logical error 3: I cannot have assets and benefits at the same time. Why should I want a green card? 

 

Ignorance 1: Turkish state and German state actually cooperate in terms of identifying hidden property. German debtors even can access our property information from Germany. If I owe say 20.000 euro to a German company or something, my state will help them with Turkish state records here about what I own. Likewise it's not hard for your country to find out what is owned here. That includes German Hartz Vier seekers hiding summer houses here, trying to lead better lives with 400 euros or whatever. It doesn't mean a good life even here, sorry.

 

Penalty for this crime starts from 1 year jail as well as financial repercussions and may lead to deportation. But oh, how can I steal your Hartz Vier if I'm deported. See, again a logical error. I must stay in your country to steal this money so I must not commit easily-discovered crimes like this.

 

Ignorance 2:   Suspecting anything due to depression as a medical condition is considered a breach of human rights in democracies. Depression is not a mental condition that makes someone unfit for marriage. Building a decision on this can result in your country to be sued in European Rights of Human Course and appear as a scandalous decision on newspapers. Do you need an integration course to integrate into Germany's democratic values as well? 

 

Ignorance 3: "Turkish" woman. The number of Turks is decreasing in Germany. Leavers are the educated and skilled ones as they don't wish to receive this treatment like the one I am receiving from you. For instance, statistically, having a Turkish name decreases job opportunities by 30%. Basically, you've got to get this. People like me don't want your Hartz Vier. We can do better. We wish to aim for higher in life and we can achieve this believe it or not. 

 

Ignorance 4: In fake marriages, the first thing your state looks at - with my nation- is the age gap. Typically, these marriages are between elderly German women and young Turkish men (20+ years of age gap). My BF and I have nothing against us. I find this age gap stuff against German women discriminatory as well (against German women) because it is not considered a big problem when men marry younger women under the same conditions. 

 

Waiting for your future insults and judgements. 

 

 

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52 minutes ago, zeino said:

My BF doesn't want or expect this either. Hence his insistence of his Hartz Vier. That's not my insistence. I don't wish to live on it. It decreases my life standards significantly, why should I want it? I don't need it. Some people here may judge this choice. Opinions may vary. They can be political. Whatever. I cannot change a German national's mental or emotional relation to his own system and what this entails.  I either accept or reject what it brings for me. I don't wish to nag anyone to work for us because if they want to do it, they simply can. It's no biggie. I don't even know whether Hartz Vier entails health or not. The first time I heard it, I thought he was saying "hearts" with a German accent. We have no conflicts about this actually. 

 

You say your partner insists on keeping his Hartz iv because he feels that makes him independent.  However, you both must understand that his insistence on not working and taking Hartz iv will affect your financial situation if you marry him.  Whatever money you bring into the relationship will have to be used for his support as well before he gets his Hartz iv.  Hence, you getting married will mean that he can expect some loss of Hartz iv and have to rely on you to support him.  That is unless you decide not to work either and also go on Hartz iv in case you will both be living on it.

 

Hartz iv includes health insurance as well but if your husband got a job, as long as he is making over 450€ a month, he would be health insured too through his employer.  You will also have to figure out how to get yourself health insured.  If you decide to be self-employed, insurance will be expensive for you.

 

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12 minutes ago, zeino said:

Waiting for your future insults and judgements. 

 

 

I am not trying to insult you; I am trying to help you. I don't actually believe that this is a "green card" marriage, but I am warning you that it could look like that to the authorities. My actual suspicion is that you are you are being naïve and have fallen for a man that's unlikely to be husband material. I don't mean to insult your BF--although I am afraid you will interpret my post as being just that--but a chronically unemployed 40-year old is not exactly "a good catch". Love is a wonderful thing and, as the old saying goes, it is blind. I am just having a hard time convincing myself that it is a good idea for a gainfully employed woman to uproot herself from her community and move to a foreign country for someone who obviously can't manage to take care of himself and needs the continuous support of the state to put a roof over his head and food on his plate. You don't even expect him to find a job (your own words). The whole thing begs the question: "What do you see in him?".

I know that the point of the thread is the mechanics of immigration and welfare, and you are probably not interested in relationship advice, but for your own benefit, I think I should carefully think over what you want to do. Do you think you'll be enjoying each other's company as much after a few months of being stuck in the house, with no money to do much other than watch TV, and too much time in your hands because you don't have jobs to go to?

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1 hour ago, Smaug said:

 

 

Thank you for your patient explanation Smaug and I do apologize if I also came off as rude - I am angry about being called a skammer and what not and this "protecting assets" thing is triggering me but this is not your fault. 

 

I know what you are saying and my boyfriend and I agreed that this is a horrible life plan, like you wouldn't wish it on your worst enemy:) I know that when we have the blinders on, it feels like we can do anything but reality, long-term reality is different. And could put a lot of strain on our relationship. Very quickly. (Even before it becomes real actually). I mean, not just in terms of finance, lifestyle etc. If my BF expects me to do this for his father (who doesn't need care), what would that say about love, you know. Luckily, he doesn't. Our agreement is to live in my country or in a third country where we both work. I also agree to live in Germany for a limited period like a year or a year and a half max. if he needs this time for a family situation. And I expect a medal for this:)))) Free tea or coffee for the rest of my life:)))

 

He isn't a "good catch" in terms of finances. This isn't very important to me in my list of needs/wants, priorities, you name it. as long as I can continue my normal existence. But neither do I desire to lose a significant portion of my future security because of this. I mean, I have been blamed for thinking about divorce before here, but really, what happens to me if I spend my future security in Germany and then we decide to get a divorce. Then I will really need Hartz Vier, also having lost my career opportunities elsewhere. This is a terrible pressure to put someone else in as well. What if my parent (whose assets I ask to liquidate) needs some expensive treatment or care in her older age?  I have to consider all this before I ask for things from people. And why? Because of job choices or other families' choices. I value myself more than this. I cannot be attracted to anyone who expects this from me - luckily BF doesn't, he also didn't know how bad this would be. With a direct effect on my visa situation, thus rendering me continuously insecure in Germany in terms of where I live. Like me, he also thought if I'm independent and he relies on state support (within the Bedorfgemeinchaft and if we can document this), his situation would not count as my personal dependence on the state. But we have learnt here that we are evaluated on "family" basis which renders how much I bring irrelevant. If he is dependent, we are dependent, i.e. I am dependent. And I don't only wish to protect my finances, I want to enjoy them. Struggling to support two people as a newcomer to a country is not enjoying it. Not with my skills, maybe it would be different if I was in another sector like engineering, architecture etc, I don't know. 

 

Finances is not very important to me but mutuality is. Both people putting their best into a relationship. This may not be equal in a measurable sense but both people feel that their partner is doing as much as them to the best of their power. If not under present conditions, then under conditions where they can. My BF and I agree about this. What he is ready or willing to do in Germany is not this. Then we will do it elsewhere. Completely fine for me, I don't like cold weather. Climate is pretty important for me. I can imagine I cat get SAD with my life in Germany. 

 

I looked at jobs in the Turkish community. They are mostly looking for butchers. "Smiling" ones. BF and I joke that if I became a butcher because of him, he would be the first to go. We don't want to make me a butcher:)))) 

 

I believe I would love certain things about Germany. Architecture, concerts, cheese, bread, beers, cheap pork, the Black Forest, a well-defined and orderly life (to a degree). Driving and cycling without fearing a bloody death. I can enjoy these as a tourist as well. I always wanted a miniature pig as a pet. maybe I try to smuggle one into my country at one point dressing it like a puppy. "Pigs" are not pets in our regulations and I don't think I could convince the customs. For this I am completely ready to be fined:)))) These are the things I enjoy thinking about, not whether I will de facto be an eternal visitor in a foreign country, inheritance laws etc.  

 

Thank you again for writing and I am sorry if I came off as offensive as well. I have certainly learnt something from you. 

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1 hour ago, LeonG said:

 

 

You say your partner insists on keeping his Hartz iv because he feels that makes him independent.  However, you both must understand that his insistence on not working and taking Hartz iv will affect your financial situation if you marry him.  Whatever money you bring into the relationship will have to be used for his support as well before he gets his Hartz iv.  Hence, you getting married will mean that he can expect some loss of Hartz iv and have to rely on you to support him.  That is unless you decide not to work either and also go on Hartz iv in case you will both be living on it.

 

Hartz iv includes health insurance as well but if your husband got a job, as long as he is making over 450€ a month, he would be health insured too through his employer.  You will also have to figure out how to get yourself health insured.  If you decide to be self-employed, insurance will be expensive for you.

 

 

Yes LeonG, that was a complete misunderstanding on our part - thinking that we would be evaluated on an individual basis within the Bedorfgemeinschaft for permanent residence purposes. I mean that way, at least I would be able to fulfill the requirements but this way I cannot even if his benefits reduce but I still can prove self-sufficency. And in terms of the future, any inheritance changes the balance in our emotional dynamic. Jesus, I don't even wish to think about my mother's death and everything in such a framework - I mean something so personal, so about grief also becomes a topic of financial situation, sounds horrible to me.

 

I thought about how I would get myself insured, through the broker advices here. I filled a little questionnaire about international insurance which gave me a quote around 190 if I remember correctly. And there is the rürup as well. And I'm trying to calculate all with a 200 euro extra every month so that if I make a mistake - tax declaration, doing something wrong in bureaucracy etc- or if the currency parity changes and my income decreases etc, I don't end up with social support despite my efforts. 

 

I can't live on Hartz Vier. Honestly I don't know how I would relate to it if I was German. In my situation that means staying in the country for good, but my future always between the lips of someone else - even if this is a spouse- and constantly having a critical connection between my life circumstances and inheritance - the death of my mother basically. I can't handle this. Don't even wish to try. 

 

Funnily, because of my relation to the Turkish community, the easiest and most profitable option is to have a share in a shop, would be a hairdresser or a beauty salon in my case, lots of people want to sell their share in what they claim are already profitable businesses - needs to be checked of course. (Secret: I would enjoy it too, with all the hair products:)) This would keep us out of Hartz Vier as well. But because I'm not a hairdresser, I would only be an employer and with my lack of language skills and lack of knowledge of German business life, I would not be able to control my business at all - its marketing, customer relations, financial responsiblilities etc. So not feasible unless I learn very properly here in my country, work with a legal advisor on how to run things properly in Germany so I don't stupidly go bankrupt or something, and also get familiar with German culture of small business. At the moment the only thing I know is a "vokuhila":))) Don't wish to build my business on this extensive knowledge:)))

 

So without proper empowerment, proper new skills etc, I will not even try to make two people survive in Germany. Translation doesn't  cut it. Teaching doesn't either.

 

But everything you have shared made me understand what is going on. I really really appreciate it.    

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2 hours ago, Conquistador said:

Well, you'll need a lot more than B2 German to do translation, whereas your English is presumably fluent, plus I'd imagine that there is a ton of competition (read: low rates) when it comes to the German-Turkish and Turkish-German combinations.

 

Thank you Conquistador for the comment. I know what you mean. What I had in mind - theoretically- was CAT on a word-basis with stuff like simple hospitality, estate agent documents etc. Anything beyond that would be impossible. I'm even a bit sad that even if I learnt German really well within expected standards, that would still keep me out of a lot of abstract discussion in German life. Certain things I can only learn in time, through reading etc  especially at my age with my memory:))) 

 

I wouldn't even try to do German-Turkish when there are so many bilingual people with this combo in Germany - though I believe I would be a very good Turkish language editor/proofreader in Germany's standards, with publications etc. However, building enough connections would take a lot of time. Other than, not being able to reject some very simple work would be the maximum for me. 

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On 12/15/2016, 10:37:48, Afrofrau said:

@engelchen With all due respect,my GerMan was required by ABH to submit 3 latest payslips and show proof of adequate housing.Perhaps Hartz IV folks don't have to?

 

Your husband was given a standard list of documents to provide and he took the path of least resistance and chose to submit them. He could have also refused, quoted the law, and the ABH would have still been required to issue you a permit. 

 

Only in very special cases is it possible for the authorities to deny an FZF application to a dependent of a German citizen due to insufficient funds (e.g. a child from a previous relationship would be entitled to less support from a parent due to the parent's new family obligations).

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On 16.12.2016, 18:32:17, zeino said:

He too wants to contribute to  our household, he has no problems with working elsewhere.

 

On 16.12.2016, 18:45:51, zeino said:

But he doesn't wish to work in what he can find, not in Germany. he is OK with working elsewhere.

 

22 hours ago, zeino said:

Our agreement is to live in my country or in a third country where we both work.

 

Refuses to work in Germany for whatever psychiatric reasons and therefore receives Harz IV, but is willing to work elsewhere. Which means that he is indeed scamming the German Harz IV system. And has been for years. 

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