Maps for hiking

26 posts in this topic

This autumn and winter I feel like getting in some hikes. It has been an age since I did anything serious - and that was in the UK ten years ago. I feel a bit of out touch....

 

Is there anything available in Germany that approaches the O.S. Landranger 1:50.000 series for quality, clarity and accuracy?

 

Cheers,

 

Taff

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taff if you have mornings free I could show you some of the hikes round Lenggries/Tegernsee, the former is our weekend base. 

 

The Germans have sense. In the UK you have to sit on a summit freezing in a cairn with a flask of shitty brewed tea. Here they put pubs on the mountains. Up there y<ou have to sink a Jagerteee.

 

Here are my faves.

 

Schwarzentennalm,

Schwaiger alm (open log fire!),

Gindelam,

 

karwendel  - Tontalalm, Rohtalalm,Binsalm

 

Lenggrieser Hutte,

Tölzerhutte,

,

 

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Jeremy,

call me a fool if you like but sitting on top of any of my favourite peaks in my beloved Yorkshire (Dales) with a flask of tea and pack of butties usually trying to find a dry, or at least less wet spot is all part of the fun :P

I especially enjoyed my Christmas tradition of hiking one of the three peaks (Pen-y-Ghent, Ingleborough or Whernside) in the days between Christmas and New Year and sitting atop with my flask and pack of left-over turkey butties along with a few other get-away hikers with similar food parcels.

 

Anyway, this thread reminded me of when I first came to Germany; of course when colleagues asked if I missed anything from home I honestly told them I missed only two things, firstly fishing and secondly my beloved Yorkshire Dales.

One weekend I was invited to accompany a colleague and one of his hiking friends on a walk. I don't remember which mountain but when we arrived at the car park I asked who had the map(s). Oh no, we don't need maps came the reply and I soon learned why .... we started the hike at the bottom of an actual pathway complete with a wooden sign telling us how far to the next point and also how long in minutes we could expect that section to take. So it continued ... at every junction were signs with distances and timings.

The 'hiking friend' stopped at one such junction, looked at us and announced in complaining tones "we have to hurry, that last section was supposed to take 20 minutes and we took 26". No, he wasn't joking and I never asked to accompany them again.

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43 minutes ago, Malt-Teaser said:

 

The 'hiking friend' stopped at one such junction, looked at us and announced in complaining tones "we have to hurry, that last section was supposed to take 20 minutes and we took 26". No, he wasn't joking and I never asked to accompany them again.

That reminds me of one particular student I used to have.  He loved cycling and could always tell me how far, how fast and how high he and his wife had cycled over the weekend, but I seldom got any details about how nice it was, or how pretty the scenery was!

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2 hours ago, Malt-Teaser said:

Jeremy,

call me a fool if you like but sitting on top of any of my favourite peaks in my beloved Yorkshire (Dales) with a flask of tea and pack of butties usually trying to find a dry, or at least less wet spot is all part of the fun :P

I especially enjoyed my Christmas tradition of hiking one of the three peaks (Pen-y-Ghent, Ingleborough or Whernside) in the days between Christmas and New Year and sitting atop with my flask and pack of left-over turkey butties along with a few other get-away hikers with similar food parcels.

 

Anyway, this thread reminded me of when I first came to Germany; of course when colleagues asked if I missed anything from home I honestly told them I missed only two things, firstly fishing and secondly my beloved Yorkshire Dales.

One weekend I was invited to accompany a colleague and one of his hiking friends on a walk. I don't remember which mountain but when we arrived at the car park I asked who had the map(s). Oh no, we don't need maps came the reply and I soon learned why ... we started the hike at the bottom of an actual pathway complete with a wooden sign telling us how far to the next point and also how long in minutes we could expect that section to take. So it continued ... at every junction were signs with distances and timings.

The 'hiking friend' stopped at one such junction, looked at us and announced in complaining tones "we have to hurry, that last section was supposed to take 20 minutes and we took 26". No, he wasn't joking and I never asked to accompany them again.

" Oh no, we don't need maps came the reply". A lot of my chums are often on the hill - and do not have a compass - let alone know how to use one. Is this laziness, stupidity or what? The idea of having an emergency ration at the bottom of your pack seems to be an alien concept as well. I am pretty shocked at the slap-dash attitude displayed by a lot of my pals. The mountains can be a very hostile place.

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Taff and Malty,

 

You both have a very very valid point. 

 

I like you was raised on British hills, and I had I must be very honest here, forgotten our ethics of wilderness. I refer you both to a brilliant book "The Undiscovered Country" in which the writer discusses why we wish to return to simplicity, get away from it all, and "find ourselves" in wild places. Part of me has become so "house trained" in Germany the there is a huge chunk of me which forgot all that. 

 

I'm a Snowdonia man, I loved wandering up the Glyders, the Snowdon Horseshoe and the trek across the Carneddau (behind my home town) was a mystical experience.

 

The German fixation on time drives me nuts. The excessive quantization of life is awful.

 

And...Malty, like you I miss fishing like mad! When we were in Tarn two years ago, after a canoe incident, the bloke who helped us out happened to be one pitch down on our site and lent me a beautiful rod. It led to me buying a fly rod and relearning casting a fly on the River Tarn. I've now dug out all my old reels and rods and buy spinners when they come up in Norma for use in France. I even last August for the first time bought a 4m pole! Fishing in France is fantastic. The gear stays at all times in my caravan. Given we are three times a year there, two weeks at a time, (or Spain) it gets used!

 

 

 

 

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Noooo Jeremy, please don't get me going on the topic of fishing and how impossible it is here in DE ... fishing school, restrictions, as far as I can tell no concept of course fishing as a hobby let alone competition and putting them back to fight another day ...

 

I was never one for still water fishing, give me a decent flowing river any day. My favourite? The river Nidd around a village (well, it used to be a village) called Hammerton. There were two adjoining stretches; The farm and the railway. Oh boy, one of the first pegs on the railway stretch was "the stumps" named for an obvious reason .. a series of old fence stumps poking out of the river about two thirds across.

I'll never forget the day I was pegged a couple of hundred yards away from this legendary 'hole' in one doing nothing so I walked along and asked permission to sit behind the angler and watch him. The match was an 'open' event and the angler in this case was a legendary England International. He taught me more in half an hour about fishing that spot than a lifetime alone could have.

Long story short ... that became my No.1 'goto' spot on days off work ... chubb & barbel galore if you knew what to do. How I miss that!

 

All my rods & reel are here in my cellar, sitting unused sadly.

 

We digress into fishing, sorry.

As for hiking; yes, my old 25+ year old backpack bit the dust so just a few months ago I bought a new one which I fully intend to take to Yorkshire sometime in 2017. I long to sit up on Pen-y-Ghent for an hour or so then back down into Horton in Ribblesdale and the best (pint) mug of tea and bacon butty in the region and an overnight in the only place to be in Horton; The Crown.

Taff, my backpack always had (and always will have) the correct map(s) 1:25000 OS "Outdoor Leisure" range being my weapons of choice (2.5" to 1 mile), plus a compass, emergency survival sack / bag, first aid kit, change of clothing, flask (or even two) and a large pack of butties, not forgetting of course one of my cameras. I generally don't do 'light' packs.

I'll try and look out for that book Jeremy but if I can throw a title back at you then try "Mountaincraft & Leadership" by Eric Langmuir, it's an oldie but goodie, then as for walking absolutely anything by Wainwright, of course. I have another couple of good oldies, both by OS / Pan Books and called Walker's Britain, vols 1 & 2 and are of a size you can easily carry.

All these currently sit within reach here in my study along with a selection of UK maps just waiting to be used again.

 

I really don't like another German concept of doing everything in large groups but maybe we could consider a springtime walk for the three of us somewhere suitable as winter hopefully recedes.

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My slight understanding of one of the differences being that everywhere here (other than private property where you know the owner), you must always be on the paths because the wildlife is protected. Which I understand, and like that insignificant plants are considered important, but it certainly makes for a loss of fun on the hillside.

 

D of E is rather damaged by this concept - they have to use campsites...

 

As for fishing, ho hum. Down in Devon, up on the Wear, lots of fun had all over with a rod. I don't even think they do fly fishing here, or only on little stocked ponds...

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I can understand that Kiplette, but the UK also has official paths, you just use maps to identify them much of the time ;)

Maybe this is just another case of German efficiency spoiling enjoyment?

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It isn't illegal to walk on most of the (public) land in the UK, though, is it? Whereas here, I think you do have to. Or are we supposed to stick to the footpaths up the Dales? Oh crap.

 

I think you are right that the Teutonic efficiency is the big one though - not 'which of these scuffed stripes up the landscape is the right one' but 'oh, look, that's signed blah and is route H so that's ours...'

 

The business of how far and fast does piss me off royally. Particular specimens among my oldies will report an adventure in that way, and it is nice that other oldies, not just me, will ask what they saw, did they stop and look at the view, how wide was the river at that point etc. Appreciation of the journey, not just a tick in the 'I did my fitness for the week' box.

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10 minutes ago, Malt-Teaser said:

I can understand that Kiplette, but the UK also has official paths, you just use maps to identify them much of the time ;)

Maybe this is just another case of German efficiency spoiling enjoyment?

 

More like German history.  There are no, none, zero, zed, zip, nada old growth forests left in Germany.  Everything is cultivated.  I don't know the numbers in Germany for non-old growth but still intact natural forests that have expanded beyond their original cultivation, but it's pretty low.  As a result, protection for what remains is a high priority- plus, in the tended forests, the access roads and trails are abundant- thus, the necessity and convenience of the well marked trails and regulations against off trail hiking.  

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huh, we don't have "official paths" that we need to use.  We can also use other trails.  The issue in this area is that if you try to hike through complete brush, its a world of pain with stinging nettle and ticks.  But still do able.  I am referring to the black forest of course which is like, the best place to hike EVER.  (and i come from canada :P)

 

Anyways, the maps i use for hiking around here are from this series:

 

https://www.amazon.de/Kinzigtal-mitten-Schwarzwald-Ausflugszielen-Freizeittipps/dp/3899205650/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1476434205&sr=8-4&keywords=kinzigtal

 

they are only 1:50 000 but i like them a lot. hope that helps...

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2 minutes ago, Returning said:

 

More like German history.  There are no, none, zero, zed, zip, nada old growth forests left in Germany.  Everything is cultivated.  I don't know the numbers in Germany for non-old growth but still intact natural forests that have expanded beyond their original cultivation, but it's pretty low.  As a result, protection for what remains is a high priority- plus, in the tended forests, the access roads and trails are abundant- thus, the necessity and convenience of the well marked trails and regulations against off trail hiking.  

 

I'm not sure what qualifies as an "old growth" forest but even extreme wilderness (i.e, an 8 hour or so drive from a habitable villages) in canada has SOME logging going on.  

 

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2 hours ago, Taffthedigger said:

" Oh no, we don't need maps came the reply". A lot of my chums are often on the hill - and do not have a compass - let alone know how to use one. Is this laziness, stupidity or what? The idea of having an emergency ration at the bottom of your pack seems to be an alien concept as well. I am pretty shocked at the slap-dash attitude displayed by a lot of my pals. The mountains can be a very hostile place.

 

A fair number of Europeans come to sad end in the U.S. wilderness by completely underappreciating the whole "wild"erness part.  They think it's just  like the "wildweg" back home they are used to.  (serious alpinists excluded)

 

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1 minute ago, Returning said:

 

A fair number of Europeans come to sad end in the U.S. wilderness by completely underappreciating the whole "wild"erness part.  They think it's just  like the "wildweg" back home they are used to.  (serious alpinists excluded)

 

 

Some of the sadness that europeans experience in the US comes from hearing about places like Yosemite all their lives and then going there and seeing a spectacle that is not unlike using the main entrance to disneyland.  Completely commercialized.  I went with a german there, and even going "backcountry" was extremely regulated.  

 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Joanie said:

 

Some of the sadness that europeans experience in the US comes from hearing about places like Yosemite all their lives and then going there and seeing a spectacle that is not unlike using the main entrance to disneyland.  Completely commercialized.  I went with a german there, and even going "backcountry" was extremely regulated.  

 

 

 

Well with a world population of 7.5 billion and counting, the U.S. population set to double in a hundred years, it's never going to get better than it is now, barring some cataclysm.  In the U.S. you just need to get out of the National Parks and into National Forest areas to have less of the Disney feel. Popular places are still regulated to keep the usage down to what they think the land can handle, but you can still find places to lose yourself, where you can hike all day and maybe see only one other group, or no one, and set your own trails, hopefully subject to personal ethics with regard to land disturbance.

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1 hour ago, Malt-Teaser said:

Noooo Jeremy, please don't get me going on the topic of fishing and how impossible it is here in DE ... fishing school, restrictions, as far as I can tell no concept of course fishing as a hobby let alone competition and putting them back to fight another day ...

 

. The match was an 'open' event and the angler in this case was a legendary England International. He taught me more in half an hour about fishing that spot than a lifetime alone could have.

Long story short ... that became my No.1 'goto' spot on days off work ... chubb & barbel galore if you knew what to do. How I miss that!

 

 

I'll try and look out for that book Jeremy but if I can throw a title back at you then try "Mountaincraft & Leadership" by Eric Langmuir, it's an oldie but goodie, then as for walking absolutely anything by Wainwright, of course. I have another couple of good oldies, both by OS / Pan Books and called Walker's Britain, vols 1 & 2 and are of a size you can easily carry.

All these currently sit within reach here in my study along with a selection of UK maps just waiting to be used again.

 

I really don't like another German concept of doing everything in large groups but maybe we could consider a springtime walk for the three of us somewhere suitable as winter hopefully recedes.

2

 

Now who was the England International angler? We once had Ian Heaps at our angling club back in the day.

 

As for books I had a copy of Langmuir. My mate dragged my fat arse up many extremes in the Dinorwig Slate Quarries so I was able to lead V Diff climbs. He wanted to thug up hard routes when I wanted to do long lazy scenic easier stuff then go to the pub after to chat up the climbing groupies. Not that I ever got any!

 

And Wainwright! While in the Lakes we followed some of his walks. Heaven.

 

35 minutes ago, Malt-Teaser said:

I can understand that Kiplette, but the UK also has official paths, you just use maps to identify them much of the time ;)

Maybe this is just another case of German efficiency spoiling enjoyment?

1

 

German efficiency spoils life here.

 

18 minutes ago, Returning said:

 

More like German history.  There are no, none, zero, zed, zip, nada old growth forests left in Germany.  Everything is cultivated.  I don't know the numbers in Germany for non-old growth but still intact natural forests that have expanded beyond their original cultivation, but it's pretty low.  As a result, protection for what remains is a high priority- plus, in the tended forests, the access roads and trails are abundant- thus, the necessity and convenience of the well marked trails and regulations against off trail hiking.  

 

 

Allow me to bring up a fascinating bloke Victor Schauenberger, who was horrified at the forestry practices here which destroyed the natural flow of water.

 

Right must dash. Daughter pickup...

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Damn Jeremy, how did I know you were going to ask that?

I have to say my memory fails me, I must be getting too old now and that was certainly over 40 years ago when I was a teenager. The crazy thing is that my father introduced me to him as dad had originally introduced the chap to fishing some years before.

If I'm not mistaken (which I may be) the chap could well have been the captain of the England team around that time.

 

Wainwright's guide books were so good you could really use them in place of maps.

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Maybe someone like Ivan Marks? He was God in match angling back then.

 

I lugged the old angling books along with climbing guides.  We now have a fave campsite in Tarn which we will return to every year. The river flows below the site and I spent time fly casting for the trout there. I also fished the Dordogne late summer and loved it. Only smallish roach but I think it is only when you are older do you really deeply "get" fishing. When young the hormones drag you off to the babes.

 

As for Wainwright...I dragged a grumpy wife up to Scotland with a caravan a few years ago. I had fantastic memories of 70s caravanning, On the way down we called into the upper Lakes near Keswick a village called Lower Lorton. i don't think I have ever been in such a peaceful place in years in England. The site was at the back of a country pub couldn't be nicer. Real hand pulled ale - God how I miss pubs like that with beamed ceilings and log fires burning.

 

Here is your homework for this evening  - a memoir to the history of caravanning. Yes it is me who downloaded it.

 

 

Regards fave pools: here is a memoir to my fave pond:

 

https://jeremystocks.wordpress.com/2010/08/23/return-to-clobryn-pool/

 

https://jeremystocks.wordpress.com/2010/02/01/a-memoir-for-clobryn-pool/

 

 

 

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