Mass shooting at shopping center in Munich

490 posts in this topic

37 minutes ago, billt said:

Not so sure -  I worked in the foundry industry in Darlington in the late 80's and had never seen a handgun in the UK when a policeman turned up with a sack - full of illegal hand guns that they had collected with a request to destroy in our furnaces. I was shocked but some of the locals told me a gun wasn't a problem if you knew the right people! In Germany legal guns are controlled but in a border less society 

 

30 minutes ago, LisaJK said:

 

UK gun law was changed in 1996 following the Dunblane massacre, effectively banning hand guns, years after your experiences.

 

No borders is obviously an issue, unless the whole of Schengen follows and an effective border around Schengen is enforced.

Do you mean it's impossible to bring guns over the Channel? I have doubts that there is any luggage control there :)

At external Schengen borders the customs officers look for cheap cigarettes and alcohol, also the luggage is not really controlled (on land border).

 

This is the issue "freedom vs security", I myself prefer freedom, but people want to live long and prefer security(theater). We will see if Europe will turn into USA one day where you have to declare any single Kinder egg...

 

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3 minutes ago, yourkeau said:

 

Do you mean it's impossible to bring guns over the Channel? I have doubts that there is any luggage control there :)

At external Schengen borders the customs officers look for cheap cigarettes and alcohol, also the luggage is not really controlled (on land border).

 

This is the issue "freedom vs security", I myself prefer freedom, but people want to live long and prefer security(theater). We will see if Europe will turn into USA one day where you have to declare any single Kinder egg...

 

 

Of course no border is perfect, without draconian measures. It would be difficult to get arms in and out of China, from Hong Kong, for example, but the queues are horrendous.

 

For these sort of events, it's more about how readily the guns are available. In the UK illegal guns obviously exist, but they are just not so readily available. A loony looking for an illegal gun would tend to draw attention, whereas it would not be so obvious here where hand guns exist legally in civilian hands.

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1 hour ago, gemini said:

I do want to take issue with the so called Balcony guy.  I know he acted instinctively, but he made the situation loads worse.  In these situations, and if you ever find yourself in this kind of situation, a person should actually be empathetic (even if you don't feel so) and try to talk them down.  Name calling...especially calling him a foreigner...just made the tragedy more likely to happen.

 

I am struggling with that one.

My moderate background in psychology of course babbles to deescalate, talk to the guy, appeal to his better nature etc.

I once managed to talk to a guy attacking me (fairly minor incident)  and distracted him long enough to escape... but I've also had a violent situation where the perp didn't care a bit because his mind was made up.

 

In this situation, IMHO the attacker already was much too committed, much too far gone down the road of destruction.

This is on the parking deck probly *after* he emptied a clip into the fleeing crowd in front of the fast food place. He already knew he was going down, had passed the point of no return.

Perversely, getting yelled at and verbally abused caused him to talk about about his state of mind, his cluelessness, his not having a political/ religious agenda. It's actually valuable information.

 

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If this nutter was on meds and was coming off them then there is a major legal/medical insurance claim under this.

 

I knew a woman once who flipped out after librium withdrawal. Terrifying.

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Wow I turned on the TV and get a refresher that in addition to Islamic psychos, you have to also worry about secular psychos snapping and shooting everybody in sight.  From what I've heard there is not much evidence to cite Islam or ISIS as a motive.  And besides if the shooter was Persian, he was undoubtedly Shia and they are sworn enemies to ISIS.

 

What I find disturbing is that he got a hold of a gun in a country that places strict regulations on firearms.  I guess it goes to show that even strict guns laws can't prevent perpetrators from getting hold of firearms and committing mass murder if they really want to. :(

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1 hour ago, SA_Drone said:

 

Islam by no means has a monopoly on outrageous sexism against women. Read the Bible recently?

Now if your post had said something like "I have decided that I now hate organized religion", you might be on the right track.

Trying hard with "pot calls the kettle black" argument ?

If you think Christians take Bible as seriously as Muslims take Koran, then I have a news for you. 

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22 minutes ago, LisaJK said:

 

Of course no border is perfect, without draconian measures. It would be difficult to get arms in and out of China, from Hong Kong, for example, but the queues are horrendous.

 

For these sort of events, it's more about how readily the guns are available. In the UK illegal guns obviously exist, but they are just not so readily available. A loony looking for an illegal gun would tend to draw attention, whereas it would not be so obvious here where hand guns exist legally in civilian hands.

There are 2 million guns in Germany which is not much for a country with 80 million people, this includes hunting rifles and hunting guns.

An obvious source to get gun illegally would be a travel to former warzone, for example Kosovo where it's quite easy to get a gun. Ukraine is now also full of illegal guns easily available, one сan go there with a German passport.

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1 hour ago, SA_Drone said:

 

Islam by no means has a monopoly on outrageous sexism against women. Read the Bible recently?

Now if your post had said something like "I have decided that I now hate organized religion", you might be on the right track.

Trying hard with "pot calls the kettle black" argument ?

If you think Christians take Bible as seriously as Muslims take Koran, then I have a news for you. 

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1 minute ago, rohit_2543 said:

Trying hard with "pot calls the kettle black" argument ?

If you think Christians take Bible as seriously as Muslims take Koran, then I have a news for you. 

Some do!

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1 hour ago, SA_Drone said:

 

@YoRambo Which Muslim majority city you grew up in ? Curious you know. Is it Srinagar or somewhere in Mallapuram, Kerala ?

How did it become Muslim majority, is the real question. Can you enlighten us ?

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1 minute ago, LisaJK said:

Some do!

Exactly. In Poland these radical Catholics are called Katotaliban ("Catholic Taliban") exactly for that reason. They seriously want to ban all abortion, for example, including for raped women and women who can die as a result. In the US they cannot do it due to the Constitution but in Poland still everything is possible.

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@LisaJK Same old "not all / some in every religion " argument.

- how does misogyny in X other religion justify the same in Islam.

- you have any concrete data comparing the extent of xenophobia and sexism in Islam compared to other religions ?

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Just now, rohit_2543 said:

@LisaJK Same old "not all / some in every religion " argument.

- how does misogyny in X other religion justify the same in Islam.

- you have any concrete data comparing the extent of xenophobia and sexism in Islam compared to other religions ?

 

I don't care how much one religion is more zealous than another or how many nutters each religion has, some is more than none and is unacceptable.

 

The fundamentals of all religions are superstition and therefore not grounded in fact. AFAIC no religion should have any right to tell me what to do.

 

Even the Brexit campaign ended up more like a religious campaign due to all the lies they were throwing about.

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What does this digression on religion have to do with this thread, exactly?  We have lots of threads now on which we can argue the badness of Islam or whatever and get our axes well ground.  It's likely that both the perpetrator and a majority of his victims have a loose personal connection to Islam but that's about it.

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@LisaJK There is a TT thread on prospective Islamic takeover in 50 years. There are no similar threads for Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism or Taoism, actually proves the threat is real. But not as real as dismissive Ostriches with their head buried deep in the sand.

Mao, Stalin, Pot Pot were murderous although they lacked religion, but because they commanded religion like blind faith, something which can be created with or without religion. In this case, with one particular religion.

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Guys, do fight about religion/Islam/Cathotaliban in one of the numerous other threads.

 

Don't hijack this one about local Munich events! Please? :)

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I'm giving up, as many people have said many times, you cannot argue with someone who has faith.

 

@rohit_2543 you obviously are not reading what I am writing.

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