Mass shooting at shopping center in Munich

490 posts in this topic

I understand he was living with his dad in Maxvorstadt. His father runs a taxi company. In the video he said he grew up in a Hartz 4 neighbourhood and he had treatment in Giesing. Response resident:"Treatment? You need a psychiatrist and your skull needs to be cut-off."

 

@paulwork: you are speculating a lot. Stick to facts.

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Also for paulwork - kids can join the Schutzenverein and learn to fire weapons - this is the German way. My older son has a very dodgy friend who I would not trust with a cocktail stick who is an enthusiastic member of the Schutzenverein. 

 

Getting hold of the weapon is a different question.

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57 minutes ago, vmelchers said:

I wonder what happened at Karlsplatz Stacchus that triggered all the madness on Marienplatz and the strip. I was there at 19:30 and forces were deployed. But it looks like the attacker never left OEZ area until he killed himself...

At OEZ, a car with 2 persons left with high speed during the shooting and it was assumed that they belonged to the attacker. So, the police thought there could possibly be multiple attacks in town incl. Karlsplatz. Later on, the police was able to track that car and the 2 persons had nothing to do with the attacker. I don't know what triggered the panic around Karlsplatz, but there will be an official press conference at 11:30.

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Garibaldi says that zeit.de reported people panicked at the sight of armed civilian police around Stachus (and possibly Isartor, didn't read that source myself) and reported them as sightings of gunmen, hence the claims of multiple incidents.

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In case of a real attack, I wouldn't trust armed civilian looking people, that just wear these light shiny police vests. Could still be a terrorist.

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Unlike other threads, I do not see anyone raising the valid argument of Merkel's failed asylum policy and indiscriminate admission of whoever claimed to be a minor.

Merkel has however maintained a stoic but convenient silence on the entire Munich shootout matter.

I guess, people are confused, as there has been Right wing vs Islamic debate over the motive of the attack. And that the attacker ranted against Hartz-IV and bullying, giving credibility to "lone wolf" theory, something Leftists and pro-migration camp wants, aiming to dilute the gravity.

There are articles on Focus, Huffingtonpost and Welt regarding this, with Welt questioning whether Oktoberfest will be held at all amidst such grave security threats. Politicians like Hungarian PM Viktor Orbán has already made statements accusing Merkel of being directly responsible for these attacks, (which many suspect will  not be the last)

 

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21 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

@rohit_2543 it is too early to talk about it. As an example, if he is confirmed to be Iranian born in Germany, this does not fit very well the argument against refugees and ISIS. Just adds hate against islam.

 

As a woman I must stand up and declare that I do hate Islam. It blatantly promotes what can only be described as the slavery of women, however they try to wrap it up.

 

Burkas, headscarves and women beating, among other things, have no place in any 21st century moral framework.

 

The fact that Islam has been distorted to create the biggest threat to modern scientific based thought and morals, through terrorism, is just one more reason to hate it.

 

I don't single out the Islamic religion for my hatred of religions, however I find the sight of women wearing burkas and headscarves repulsive and therefore it tends to be more obvious in its repulsive views.

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16 minutes ago, LisaJK said:

 

As a woman I must stand up and declare that I do hate Islam. It blatantly promotes what can only be described as the slavery of women, however they try to wrap it up.

 

 

Christianity is not much different...at least the majority (as defined by numbers) of the branches of it.  Mormons, catholics...

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4 minutes ago, Joanie said:

Christianity is not much different...at least the majority (as defined by numbers) of the branches of it.  Mormons, catholics...

 

That argument is so old and useless, that one can hear the Crusaders sending us their apologies.

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6 hours ago, Chocky said:

So I'm guessing there will be no connection to ISIL as they are Sunni Muslims and Iranians are Shia. Whatever, this new 'era' we are living in seems to have given agency to angry, deranged and bitter people everywhere, and apparently they all now feel justified in airing their grievances with society through acts of senseless violence.

 

My condolences Munich/Toytown.

 

Chocky

Exactly, now anybody anywhere, anytime can be a target of mad angry people who'd use guns, trucks or axes to channel their grievances. We never know when and where will come the next angry mad people hell-bent on killing as many people as possible in public. What if it's not contained to public places anymore? What about schools and kindergartens, they hardly have security protection and full of defenseless children. Or churches on Sundays? 

How could this guy obtain guns anyway? I wouldn't know how. Who else know the access to guns? 

Too many attacks in such a short time, things have to change now. I honestly don't mind more control from the police if that means a safer world for me and my family.

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25 minutes ago, LisaJK said:

 

As a woman I must stand up and declare that I do hate Islam...

 

I don't single out the Islamic religion for my hatred of religions

 

QED.  You can take that hatred somewhere else.

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17 minutes ago, LisaJK said:

 

As a woman I must stand up and declare that I do hate Islam. It blatantly promotes what can only be described as the slavery of women, however they try to wrap it up.

 

Burkas, headscarves and women beating, among other things, have no place in any 21st century moral framework.

 

The fact that Islam has been distorted to create the biggest threat to modern scientific based thought and morals, through terrorism, is just one more reason to hate it.

 

I don't single out the Islamic religion for my hatred of religions, however I find the sight of women wearing burkas and headscarves repulsive and therefore it tends to be more obvious in its repulsive views.

 

I hear you. I haven't singled out Islam for the fun of it. But truth to be told, I am afraid of Islam spreading in europe and as a result, more fear and incertainty being a female.
Any reasonable person understands that muslims are individuals too and that critizising Islam is not critizising every single muslim out there. But the religion itself frightens me due to the potential of doing harm.
What's worse is the amount of backlash I see people get for raising their voices against it, I've never experienced that it was socially unacceptable to critizise christianity, and there is a lot to be critizised there too. But the christian faith that was once a scary sect has come out of its dark ages, and comparing the christian past with islam of today makes no sense to me, it's like excusing the North Korean leader's behaviour with what Hitler did 70 years ago to me.

I want Islam to be a beutiful religion of peace, I want every religion to be beautiful, but it's not like that, and Islam is a complicated religion and no matter the message of their wholy book (which I have not read), what matters in the end is the actions of those who claim to follow it, and there are good and bad.

 

I think what is important is not to single out individual believers, it saddens me when I hear about regular muslim people being harassed or bullied on the streat, called terrorist etc.
But it's also important not to turn a blind eye to the atrocities commited in the name of Islam, and without a serious reformation, I do not think Islam has a good place in europe. Not because I hate muslims by any lenght, but because I too am afraid of what is happening to my country that was once relatively safe.

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4 hours ago, gemini said:

So hard to find any background on this guy, in terms of school and work history and nothing on his mental history of family background.  But if he was yelling about Hartz IV and presumably how unfair it is...YET he was able to come up with the money to purchase a black market gun, which I assume is not cheap. 

 

If the perp's parents run a taxi business and can afford to live in the second most expensive area in town (Maxvorstadt), he wasn't a poor kid on Hartz4.

Also, we need to consider he may have taken Daddy's gun. Lots of Germans still have private firearms.

In the videos, he handled the gun very inexpertly, no way he was in a Schützenverein.

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24 minutes ago, Bricks said:

I want Islam to be a beutiful religion of peace, I want every religion to be beautiful, but it's not like that, and Islam is a complicated religion and no matter the message of their wholy book (which I have not read), what matters in the end is the actions of those who claim to follow it, and there are good and bad.

 

 

I do not want unfounded superstitions to attempt to rule my life. It's bad enough that I cannot shop on Sunday in Bavaria, let alone all the other restrictions that most religions would like to impose on me.

 

There is nothing beautiful about any religion. Nothing good has come out of of any of them. 

 

Note that I did say Islam and not Moslems. Some so called Moslems have used Islam as a front for heinous acts, but the same can be said about most religions.

 

I include Nazism, Communism and many other isms in my condemnation of religion. Why do some people feel they have a right to tell other people how they should live their lives?

 

So long as I don't affect other people in what I do why should they care what I do??? Why should Catholics care about other people shopping on a Sunday, they don't have to?

 

This guy in Moosach may have been a nutter, but one person's nutter is another person's messiah.

 

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So not sure what to make of this. It looks like a weird Columbine Muslim thing. The whole issues are complicated, mental illness, childhood trauma, dead children, access to weapons, police presence and reaction time, 2nd generation problems, Muslim attacks.

 

This is the second deadly attack by a 2nd generation Iranian in Germany this year.

 

http://www.bz-berlin.de/berlin/charlottenburg-wilmersdorf/frau-wird-auf-die-gleise-geworfen-und-von-u-bahn-ueberrollt  

 

I hope the German police are able to swiftly react to any further attacks.

 

I was already of the opinion that it is now time to at least think about starting to talk about restricting mass migration to the Syrian camps and asylum applications at German embassies in designated priority countries. If the government does not start to move then they are handing the AfD a ticket, regardless of generations of the attackers.

 

On a more personal note I know a 2nd generation Iranian. He has had a successful career at a major world consultancy and is charming, handsome, integrated, intelligent, speaks many languages, calls himself a Persian and is very popular with the ladies. I have met a number of other Persians and they were the same. Germany has not discriminated against them and they are happy to be here.

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