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Going Native or Passive Resistance

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Just curious about forum attitudes. I notice whenever anyone (usually a newbie) comes seeking guidance about having contravened some Geman law, or complaining about German customs or habits, they always get loads of criticism, admonishments and downvotes. I assume most of us come from countries where people do take a more relaxed attitude to rules and regulations, so are you all being strict and unsympathetic for the good of the questioner (the sooner they learn the better) or have you all gone native, and are actively affronted by these transgressions?

 

PS: I haven't done anything I want to confess. I just am curious. 

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Agree with above.

 I think most newcomers generally receive good advice,  links and support. However, many  have not done research before arriving, do not have  correct visa, health coverage,  and   use the expression " Well, it is not like this where I come from".

Many seem grateful for advice, and  often repost with  updated info- great for others.    Some become defensive when  advice is not what they want to hear.

In these days of IT, web sites with a wealth of info on  moving to another country, that is why some responses  are critical.

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I definitely agree with Engelchen that research is the key to living happily in Germany.

If you know what permits you require (should you require any!), and what insurances you have to have, and which are highly recommended, then you have a very good basis for living here.

Learning German is a must, in my opinion, and constantly complaining that things are better "back home" does not go down well with those who have been here somewhat longer.

 

TT is a super place to exchange opinions, to make friends, and to let off steam, but it also does not go down so well if somebody is always seen to be asking others for help, and never giving any themselves.

 

BTW - I have also done nothing that I want to confess, at least not here! :D

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I think the cause of a lot of peoples' frustration isn't when people ask the same question over and over without seeming to put forth any effort at all on their own (because let's face it, being an immigrant is hard), it's actually when new people come in with a sense of entitlement about the whole thing. "Well WHY isn't is like it was back home?" or "no, this is all wrong, I read on Buzzfeed that..." or "so everyone here speaks English anyway right LOL".

 

At the end of the day the people who frustrate the most also seem to be the ones who want to have their cake and eat it too.

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I find it annoying when a newbie cusses and curses about a poster who is offering really top advice based on years of experience - and UNPAID advice on here - when sometimes someone slags off the likes of engelchen ( good example of a classy and experienced poster ) or others without doing any research into what that person has offered the forum over many years.

 

I remember one newbie a couple of years or so ago slagging someone off with the words. " I´m accustomed to people providing links for me " when a particular answer didn´t contain such a link! Yes, you guessed right..it was one of my posts!:lol:..and then I settle down and remember some of the posters are young enough to be my grandkids and I smile!!! (usually!)...

 

Oh, grimmiger: nice idea for a thread!!:rolleyes:

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On 14.7.2016, 20:38:10, john g. said:

I Oh, grimmiger: nice idea for a thread!!:rolleyes:

 

I was secretly hoping to hear stories about the old hands getting badly burned themselves when they first arrived, and learning their lesson.

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I can't remember the threads, but I did get a bit of "newbie bashing" nothing serious though more of a bit of banter.

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I was clueless regarding forums before I joined TT and was certainly unaware of any kind of etiquette. Having joined nearly 5 years ago, I can honestly say that my family and I owe so much thanks to the many members that have helped us through some pretty difficult times and serious issues. Good times too, lots of laughs. 

 

I so admire the expats who have been here say, 20 years or more.  Their experience wasn't aided by helpful forum people.  They often arrived in Germany having to learn the very difficult language from scratch. I'd say that even though I've lots of life determination and even had a head start on the language, coming to Germany has been the most challenging and sometimes excruciatingly painful and lonely experience. Still, I'd rather be here than in the UK, especially for the overall better life for my daughter. 

 

TT has given me connections to so many kind hearted and intelligent people. A big thanks to you all.

 

The biggest criticism I have of newcomers is that some just don't research life here before they arrive.  Especially where kids are concerned. I too underestimated the difficulties of the school system though have now managed to find a good and positive solution, thanks to some great advice here on TT. It pains me to think of some poor kids in absolutely miserable situations here. I'm happy to advise if I can.  

 

Thank you TT.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I came to Munich 11 years ago and I can remember that I did a lot of research beforehand on accommodation,permits,health insurance German beer ;)

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I think attitude and approach have a lot to do with it.

 

A lot of noobs come on here with third-hand (or no) information and think that "doing research on moving to Germany" means asking forum members to spoon-feed them everything they need, although nearly every topic under the sun has already been discussed here ad infinitem and could be gleaned simply by reading the existing threads. When this is pointed out to them, or someone points out a flaw in their cunning plan, they get huffy.

 

And the notorious "helpful answers only" attitude, of course. Of all the fuckwittery I observed in my years as a mod and admin here, I think that one annoys me the most.

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2 hours ago, grimmiger said:

 

I was secretly hoping to hear stories about the old hands getting badly burned themselves when they first arrived, and learning their lesson.

 

When I first showed up in 2010 (under the original Guest nick) I made the mistake of mentioning the reputation system. That along with my hypersexual nature, and I got bashed pretty good. 

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On 7/14/2016, 5:05:33, grimmiger said:

 I assume most of us come from countries where people do take a more relaxed attitude to rules and regulations

 

 

I come from a place where you call the police when your neighbor's grass isn't cut properly. I come from an immigrant family that refused to speak their home language in front of their children so that the children integrated 100%. I believe that ignorantia juris neminem excusat. A valid question before the fact is admirable; a whining claim against the unfairness of the German legal system after doing something illegal is not.

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I have nothing to confess.

 

Mentioned immigration in a way which doesn't satisfy the local besorgte crowd, got -50 instantly. I learned not to write anything about migration and that way got +500 pretty quickly. But I still get negged harshly when I violate this rule.

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There are quite a lot of people on this forum who got used to the German tax, pension and health care system, respect/obey it (what else can you do anyway?) and pay their bills. And enjoy that infrastructure (kind of) works, health care (kind of) works, and that the pension system hopefully will (kind of) work in the future.

 

It always gives me a good laugh when a new bloke shows up and asks the "Dear compatriots, help a fellow new guy in ripping off these stupid German systems" question without realizing that he/she basically is asking active supporters of said systems for advice on how to rob their banks... 

 

 

Quote

or complaining about German customs or habits

 

If I'd go into a pub in Newcastle and tell people actually living there that "why is anybody in this area so stupid and driving on the f*cking wrong side of the road", I probably would have to leave that place with less teeth than I entered it. Same applies to some questions on this forum by "new guys", they lose some "virtual" teeth, and that's it.  It's just virtual.

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1 hour ago, franklan said:

If I'd go into a pub in Newcastle and tell people actually living there that "why is anybody in this area so stupid and driving on the f*cking wrong side of the road", I probably would have to leave that place with less teeth than I entered it. Same applies to some questions on this forum by "new guys", they lose some "virtual" teeth, and that's it.  It's just virtual.

Actually in this example nothing will happen: people will think that this is some complicated British sarcasm they don't get. But if you tell in the same pub that how Brits can be so stupid to leave the EU...

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A now-defunct forum for Sweden was my introduction to the life of an expat.
 But that was more than 15 years ago.

 

They had the same problems. Newbies asking the same questions over and over again (the main favorite: why doesn't Sweden have Vanilla Extract and where do I get it? Or how do I make my own? Or is anyone going back to the States and can bring me some?) and not bothering to use a search function or even reading the first page of the main forum area to find out what questions might have been asked.

 

 Before moving anywhere when I was younger, my parents would go to that location, do a bit of research in the library (remember those?), ask friends, talk to other people at work... and while I'm not certain they didn't get rolled eyes or snappy or snarky answers, they did train my brother and I to do our own research and then ask the questions we could not find the answers to.

 

When it came time to move to Germany, I had a little bit of notice on it - we'd been discussing it for 5 years - but we'd put off the decision until other factors came in and made it a rush move of about 2 months. That put me into serious research mode.

 

Toytown was fabulous. Read and read and read and find out that there were things I would have to do in Sweden before I left. Try to make plans prior to arrival with no time to do it in. And with my high-school German ability (40 years ago!) and my husband's weak German ability (it was indeed his co-first language, having lived in Austria as a child), we were not really able to get all the details right the first time.

But I found links here for health care, several possible legal options, and people willing to help answer "what order do I really do this in?" when I was stuck.

Toytown continues to be fabulous. Reminding me that I am impatient and must simply wait for the bureaucracy wheels to turn, double-checking if I filled in every possible block on the application... and then finding links where I really did look, but couldn't locate it.

(9 weeks for first numbers to arrive, for instance. And finally cleared the paperwork and got it sent in for getting our self-employment numbers, plus a tax number for our business.)

 

I'm not ready yet to truly add to the discussion, except as certain questions have come up and I can relate my personal experiences. I hope to be able to do that later, and pass on the knowledge I've gained just by reading.

 

For those who are trying to get out of certain fees or find themselves caught up in the mistakes made... well, if you don't want to live by the laws of a place, perhaps you should find a different place? I get it that not everyone approves of certain taxes or fees (TV-license comes to mind), but if you have a television, then it's simply the law that the fee must be paid. If you don't like the law, maybe you should work to change it? If that does not appeal to you, then you won't find a sympathetic ear with me if you choose to break said law and get caught doing so and find yourself with extra fines to pay.

 

Apologies for the tome.

I just got started and couldn't figure out where to stop.

I'll stop now.

 

Thanks, Toytown folks. You've been very helpful to me, and I hope to pass that on one day.

 

 

 

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Sick of the "I'm 26 a hipster my only skill is a make a kick arse deconstructed cappuccino, just moved to berlin with no money nor a work permit. Where do i land a job in a start up on 80k without speaking german.?"

 

 

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