Jaywalking in Germany - Dangers and possible fines

176 posts in this topic

5 minutes ago, keith2011 said:

 

Well first off I believe most cars in Germany are still manual and in the situation you describe IF both feet were to slip off the peddles (clutch and brake)  it would stall, not run you over.

For the rest well, I think you have a very strange point of view!

Interesting point - still - you have no clue if the vehicle is manual or not.  The base argument of the entire thread is to be 100% certain of what you're doing instead of existing on a layer of assumptions based on visual cues or statistics that someone else published about a country.

As far as the strange point of view about me analyzing how "polite cars" can waste gas, time, and cause a lot of awkward social situations - I haven't bothered to quantify all of the angles but I'm pretty sure I'm right about it.  

People just don't care about these details until it *really* matters - which, people in Germany, coast along thinking they don't have to pay as much attention as others.
precisely why people in Frankfurt are a higher risk for coronavirus because they don't understand traffic channels when walking on-foot.  In general.

You could be walking on one side of the sidwalk, 3 meters wide, and some moron walking the opposite direction will turn onto that sidewalk, start walkings directly towards me, and pretend like they were there first.  In tight situations - sure, that's normal to bump into someone.  But if we're talking entire long stretches of road where I am watching it all happen, staring the person in the eyes, motioning "Move over" since they're too clueless to notice of their own volition, THEN when I walk closer to them they start to act like they were there first.  It's only here in Frankfurt - unfortunately, idiocy like that will spread the coronavirus without a word.

With that in mind, if vehicles started to fail or break down, I wouldn't want the 'best practice' for crossing a street to be that I only trust a green light, or that I walk in front of cars that are running with drivers who really want to drive forward.  It's cute, but dumb.

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It's not about being polite. Cars are legally required to stop at marked crosswalks (the zebra stripe ones, not ones regulated by traffic lights) when someone is crossing the street or waiting to cross.

 

If you wave the cars through, you're just encouraging bad - and illegal - behavior.

 

For my part, I always wait until I see a car slowing down before I start crossing the street and give them a little "thank you" wave. There's a police precinct and a fire house near where I live, so I frequently encounter their vehicles - at zebra crosswalks, too. Sometimes I try to wave them through, but they always stop anyway unless they're on a call (meaning lights and siren on).

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10 minutes ago, crissaegrim said:



With that in mind, if vehicles started to fail or break down, I wouldn't want the 'best practice' for crossing a street to be that I only trust a green light, or that I walk in front of cars that are running with drivers who really want to drive forward.  It's cute, but dumb.

 

Sorry but that is paranoid you might just as well be scared of buildings falling on you, sure anything is possible but get real.

Also where is there any privacy when walking down a street or crossing the road in a city.

 

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1 hour ago, keith2011 said:

Well first off I believe most cars in Germany are still manual and in the situation you describe IF both feet were to slip off the peddles (clutch and brake)  it would stall, not run you over.

 

And even with an automatic if your foot "slipped" off the brake it would SLOOOWWWWWLY start to roll forward.  It's not like "drive" is an automatic rocket mode that's only interrupted by the brake...

 

So much manufactured drama with this poster...is that you Smurf?

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I have an automatic and it will only move forward in drive if my foot is on the accelerator. I tried it, even on a hill when I had to stop for a traffic light. I took my foot cautiously off the brake and the car did not roll backwards. Stopping on a hill is always such a delicate play with pedals with manual drive; not so with automatic, and much less so on a flat road.

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12 minutes ago, arunadasi said:

I have an automatic and it will only move forward in drive if my foot is on the accelerator. I tried it, even on a hill when I had to stop for a traffic light. I took my foot cautiously off the brake and the car did not roll backwards. Stopping on a hill is always such a delicate play with pedals with manual drive; not so with automatic, and much less so on a flat road.

 

in a forward driving gear it's pretty much assured (with some limits) that any car cannot roll backwards.  Even a manual shift car, which is why we're taught to leave the car in the appropriate gear (in addition to e brake and turning wheels to the curb) when parked on a hill. 

 

Problem with stopping/starting on hills and manual shift is that when you depress the clutch, the car is not in any gear at all so it rolls freely.  Modern clutches have improved and lessen roll back but yeah, you need a lot of experience to drive in San Francisco, for example ;)

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On the other hand a fairly common accident scenario particularly with older drivers of automatics is to press on the accelerator pedal by mistake instead of the brake with obvious results.

On a somewhat similar subject on the few occasions when I have driven an automatic I always default to left foot braking, which comes very naturally to me after many years of riding old European motorcycles with a left foot rear brake. I fact I was never so comfortable with modern motorcycles with right foot rear brake and left foot gear change, left foot braking is programmed in I guess.

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4 minutes ago, keith2011 said:

On the other hand a fairly common accident scenario particularly with older drivers of automatics is to press on the accelerator pedal by mistake instead of the brake with obvious results.

 

pretty sure that's just old driver error - they'd likely do the same thing in a manual shift car, they just don't drive those.

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3 hours ago, lisa13 said:

 

pretty sure that's just old driver error - they'd likely do the same thing in a manual shift car, they just don't drive those.

Could be, however,  in that scenario following the initial mistake of pressing the wrong pedal apparently the drivers' reaction is to press down even harder on the gas thus compounding the mistake and any /collision/damage!@crissaegrim watch out for those older drivers.

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3 hours ago, keith2011 said:

Could be, however,  in that scenario following the initial mistake of pressing the wrong pedal apparently the drivers' reaction is to press down even harder on the gas thus compounding the mistake and any /collision/damage!@crissaegrim watch out for those older drivers.

 

sure but I still don't see what that has to do with the type of transmission on the car.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, lisa13 said:

 

sure but I still don't see what that has to do with the type of transmission on the car.

 

 

I think with a manual there might be a chance that the left foot would press on the clutch pedal and at least disengage the drive if not bring the car to a halt and or if not then a stall.

My mother drove, until we finally persuaded her to stop, till she was 93, always a manual despite never mastering changing gear. She did not take up driving till she was over 40 and always changed either too late or too soon, terrible driver, never had an accident though or drove into a wall by pressing the wrong pedal!

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1 minute ago, keith2011 said:

I think with a manual there might be a chance that the left foot would press on the clutch pedal and at least disengage the drive if not bring the car to a halt and or if not then a stall.

My mother drove, until we finally persuaded her to stop, till she was 93, always a manual despite never mastering changing gear. She did not take up driving till she was over 40 and always changed either too late or too soon, terrible driver, never had an accident though or drove into a wall by pressing the wrong pedal!

 

fine you win.  It's old drivers in automatics only.  Not the driver, the car.

 

 

 

 

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Hearing about such accidents in the past, i.e. driving into a wall because you mix up the pedals seems to happen to young drivers as much as old.

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2 hours ago, LeonG said:

Hearing about such accidents in the past, i.e. driving into a wall because you mix up the pedals seems to happen to young drivers as much as old.

Happened to my car 2 years ago when the petrol attendent wanted to take it to the compressor station to check the pressure in the tyres.

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On 3/24/2020, 8:45:44, crissaegrim said:

:) No one will see this post but here's a point of view:

 - In Frankfurt, if I approach an intersection while walking when a car is pulling up to the intersection

 it is common for them to slowly come to a complete stop and let me walk in front of them.
How polite!
...
The car can get through sooner than me - so why should I block it?  I'd rather have privacy and they continue past me with their momentum unobstructed.

And as far as jaywalking goes:  Sometimes crossing a street where it is emptier is better than passing through a larger, higher-traffic switching conduit like an intersection.

 

 

- our forum is set up so that threads that are replied to show up in the unread posts feed, meaning that even "old" threads are just as good for commenting in

- that is lovely for Frankfurt!  In Berlin, more often than not, if you cross at an intersection and they are on the right, or you are jaywalking, they will speed up to attempt to kill you--while I can appreciate that they don't actually expect to kill you, this shitty need to make their point that you are in the wrong is dangerous, and crosses over to other places in traffic--such as they dozens of cyclists each year who are killed by motorists turning right, because they have the right of way, and nothing else (like being absolutely sure the driver has seen and is waiting for you) matters

- I disagree that crossing a street between natural intersections is safer.  Motorists are far less likely to be mindful of pedestrians attempting to cross than at intersections.  In my home state of Washington, which has full DL reciprocity with Germany, *every* intersection is a crosswalk, and the pedestrian *always* has the right of way.  I know it is not exactly the same here but the mindset is similar.  If one were to cautiously and carefully look out for pedestrians every inch of every block, one would never reach one's destination.

 

That's not to say I don't jaywalk wherever I damnwellplease, just that I don't necessarily think it's safer here or there.  It's safest when there are no cars coming.  And like Jeffo above, I also don't take risks at intersections with left turn lanes etc with which I am not familiar. 

 

On 3/24/2020, 9:20:41, crissaegrim said:

You could be walking on one side of the sidwalk, 3 meters wide, and some moron walking the opposite direction will turn onto that sidewalk, start walkings directly towards me, and pretend like they were there first.  In tight situations - sure, that's normal to bump into someone.  But if we're talking entire long stretches of road where I am watching it all happen, staring the person in the eyes, motioning "Move over" since they're too clueless to notice of their own volition, THEN when I walk closer to them they start to act like they were there first.  It's only here in Frankfurt 

 

Not only in Frankfurt.  I find myself involuntarily tossed into games of chicken just as you describe all the time.  Leaving aside all social commentary about why such a thing happens in the first place--when you see the person coming at you from afar, straighten yourself up as straight as you can (most of us are at least somewhat hunched over or with bad posture a lot of the time without realizing it), shoulders back, chin parallel to the ground, and stride with purpose.  This is a tactic which I have tested over the course of several years and has a 100% success rate.  Something deep down in the human subconscious recognizes it.  All ages, types, backgrounds, everything--everyone responds to an erect figure with a raised chin and moves almost immediately back out of the way.  I'm not saying be a dick about it.  I'm saying walk with conviction.  I am not playing chicken with these mofos on the sidewalk, life is way too effing short.  Try it.

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