Certified Copy Of Degree (Applying for Masters program at TUM)

19 posts in this topic

Hi,

Im applying for a Master's program at the TUM.

On the application form, it says I must enclose a certified copy of my Degree. 
I studied in the US. 

In the US, certified transcripts means you received your degree.

 

Ive went to the embassy; they dont "certify" copies. Notaries are of no help. 

 

How have other Americans or other foreigners gotten around this when their university does not give out certified copies of your degree?

 

Thank you!  

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Thats odd that the embassy won't do it.  

 

When i did it, i copied them and had a professional engineer "certify" it with their stamp, signature and a little line saying that they've seen the original and the copy matches it.  I suppose any legally protected profession would do, i.e. someone with a stamp, a doctor, a lawyer, etc , but I can't say.  This worked way back in 2002, I'm not sure about these days.  Use any connections you have to go this route.  

 

What you are looking for is a "Bestätigung".   There was one other time I got one, last year, and that was from a city official and it took me about 2 hours of standing in his office doorway and not going away, arguing that i only needed his stamp, not a full notary (which he was trying to direct me to).   The "don't leave until you get your way" stand-off with civil servants definitely works but can't be quite awkward.  Make sure you've had at least two cups of coffee, but are well rested, have an empty bladder and a full breakfast if you go that route. 

 

Other than that i think the best thing for a more reasonable person to do, is call TUM and ask them how they defined "certified" and what they recommend. 

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16 hours ago, ElizabethJT said:

 

Im applying for a Master's program at the TUM.

 

Through uni-assist? Or directly? 

 

13 hours ago, Joanie said:

When i did it, i copied them and had a professional engineer "certify" it with their stamp, signature and a little line saying that they've seen the original and the copy matches it.  I suppose any legally protected profession would do, i.e. someone with a stamp, a doctor, a lawyer, etc , but I can't say.  This worked way back in 2002, I'm not sure about these days.  

 

Although this method might have worked for you, it does not meet the standard German requirements. 

 

13 hours ago, Joanie said:

What you are looking for is a "Bestätigung".

 

No, actually it is called Beglaubigung. <_<

 

 

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5 hours ago, engelchen said:

 

 

 

Although this method might have worked for you, it does not meet the standard German requirements. 

 

 

 

 

Which is why i surrounded my story with a crapload of disclaimers.  

 

And perhaps people call it a Beglaubigung in some parts as it can also be call that, but the German witnesses in city hall here called it a Bestägigung, so I'm not wrong. -_-  Both words translate well enough to similar things, says the german sitting next to me.   

 

 

 

 

 

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9 hours ago, ElizabethJT said:

Im going to call the university (again) and ask for recommendations...

or go to a notary (which is ridiclous, but oh well)

 

You can also try going in person with your original degree and a photocopy. The universities really don't like doing it, however, with some charm it is often possible (on the other hand uni-assist does not have a service counter open to the public).

 

17 hours ago, Joanie said:

Which is why i surrounded my story with a crapload of disclaimers.  

 

There was a reason I first asked whether she was applying directly to TUM or through uni-assist. From the TUM website:

 

Quote

Beglaubigungen von externen Zeugnissen müssen bei einer Behörde (z. B. Meldestelle), einer Botschaft, von einem Notar oder (bei erforderlichen Übersetzungen) von einem amtlich vereidigten Übersetzer angefertigt werden. In keinem Fall werden Übersetzungen oder Beglaubigungen von Privatpersonen, Rechtsanwälten, Krankenkassen, Pfarrämtern oder dem AStA akzeptiert!

 

 

17 hours ago, Joanie said:

And perhaps people call it a Beglaubigung in some parts as it can also be call that, but the German witnesses in city hall here called it a Bestägigung, so I'm not wrong. -_-  Both words translate well enough to similar things, says the german sitting next to me.   

 

 

Well then this time both of you are wrong. The word Beglaubigung has a very specific legal meaning in Germany and cannot be used interchangeably with Bestätigung.

 

(rant) Joanie, why can't you accept that you don't know very much about German legal and administrative issues instead of insisting that you are always right (even when you are completely wrong)!?!?!?!? This is not the first time that you have given incorrect information and then kept insisting that you are right.

 

For the record, in one of my previous jobs I was responsible for evaluating diplomas and degrees of foreign applicants to German universities. If a Beglaubigung was required and an applicant submitted documents that didn't meet the requirements, we were not allowed to accept the documents. (/rant)

 

Verwaltungsverfahrensgesetz (VwVfG)

 

Quote
Nichtamtliches Inhaltsverzeichnis

§ 33 Beglaubigung von Dokumenten

(1) Jede Behörde ist befugt, Abschriften von Urkunden, die sie selbst ausgestellt hat, zu beglaubigen. Darüber hinaus sind die von der Bundesregierung durch Rechtsverordnung bestimmten Behörden im Sinne des § 1 Abs. 1 Nr. 1 und die nach Landesrecht zuständigen Behörden befugt, Abschriften zu beglaubigen, wenn die Urschrift von einer Behörde ausgestellt ist oder die Abschrift zur Vorlage bei einer Behörde benötigt wird, sofern nicht durch Rechtsvorschrift die Erteilung beglaubigter Abschriften aus amtlichen Registern und Archiven anderen Behörden ausschließlich vorbehalten ist; die Rechtsverordnung bedarf nicht der Zustimmung des Bundesrates.
(2) Abschriften dürfen nicht beglaubigt werden, wenn Umstände zu der Annahme berechtigen, dass der ursprüngliche Inhalt des Schriftstücks, dessen Abschrift beglaubigt werden soll, geändert worden ist, insbesondere wenn dieses Schriftstück Lücken, Durchstreichungen, Einschaltungen, Änderungen, unleserliche Wörter, Zahlen oder Zeichen, Spuren der Beseitigung von Wörtern, Zahlen und Zeichen enthält oder wenn der Zusammenhang eines aus mehreren Blättern bestehenden Schriftstücks aufgehoben ist.
(3) Eine Abschrift wird beglaubigt durch einen Beglaubigungsvermerk, der unter die Abschrift zu setzen ist. Der Vermerk muss enthalten
1.
die genaue Bezeichnung des Schriftstücks, dessen Abschrift beglaubigt wird,
2.
die Feststellung, dass die beglaubigte Abschrift mit dem vorgelegten Schriftstück übereinstimmt,
3.
den Hinweis, dass die beglaubigte Abschrift nur zur Vorlage bei der angegebenen Behörde erteilt wird, wenn die Urschrift nicht von einer Behörde ausgestellt worden ist,
4.
den Ort und den Tag der Beglaubigung, die Unterschrift des für die Beglaubigung zuständigen Bediensteten und das Dienstsiegel.
(4) Die Absätze 1 bis 3 gelten entsprechend für die Beglaubigung von
1.
Ablichtungen, Lichtdrucken und ähnlichen in technischen Verfahren hergestellten Vervielfältigungen,
2.
auf fototechnischem Wege von Schriftstücken hergestellten Negativen, die bei einer Behörde aufbewahrt werden,
3.
Ausdrucken elektronischer Dokumente,
4.
elektronischen Dokumenten,
a)
die zur Abbildung eines Schriftstücks hergestellt wurden,
b)
die ein anderes technisches Format als das mit einer qualifizierten elektronischen Signatur verbundene Ausgangsdokument erhalten haben.
(5) Der Beglaubigungsvermerk muss zusätzlich zu den Angaben nach Absatz 3 Satz 2 bei der Beglaubigung
1.
des Ausdrucks eines elektronischen Dokuments, das mit einer qualifizierten elektronischen Signatur verbunden ist, die Feststellungen enthalten,
a)
wen die Signaturprüfung als Inhaber der Signatur ausweist,
b)
welchen Zeitpunkt die Signaturprüfung für die Anbringung der Signatur ausweist und
c)
welche Zertifikate mit welchen Daten dieser Signatur zugrunde lagen;
2.
eines elektronischen Dokuments den Namen des für die Beglaubigung zuständigen Bediensteten und die Bezeichnung der Behörde, die die Beglaubigung vornimmt, enthalten; die Unterschrift des für die Beglaubigung zuständigen Bediensteten und das Dienstsiegel nach Absatz 3 Satz 2 Nr. 4 werden durch eine dauerhaft überprüfbare qualifizierte elektronische Signatur ersetzt.
Wird ein elektronisches Dokument, das ein anderes technisches Format als das mit einer qualifizierten elektronischen Signatur verbundene Ausgangsdokument erhalten hat, nach Satz 1 Nr. 2 beglaubigt, muss der Beglaubigungsvermerk zusätzlich die Feststellungen nach Satz 1 Nr. 1 für das Ausgangsdokument enthalten.
(6) Die nach Absatz 4 hergestellten Dokumente stehen, sofern sie beglaubigt sind, beglaubigten Abschriften gleich.
(7) Jede Behörde soll von Urkunden, die sie selbst ausgestellt hat, auf Verlangen ein elektronisches Dokument nach Absatz 4 Nummer 4 Buchstabe a oder eine elektronische Abschrift fertigen und beglaubigen.
 

 

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My university registrar's office has a person who does notarizations for attained degrees. I haven't had it done yet, but apparently just ask around your prior university's office of records.

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I just went through this to get my work permit; they asked for a certified copy of my diploma, and a translation.  I explained that in the US, transcripts rather than diplomas are usually used for proof of having received a degree; ultimately I provided them with a notarized (not apostilled) copy of my transcript, which I got from my university dean's office, as well as a picture of my diploma and a certified translation.  

 

The embassy cannot "certify" a diploma or transcript because they are not the issuing entity.  At best, a notary there could certify that you have a true and correct copy of whatever document you gave them, but they can't certify that that document is in fact an actual diploma/transcript, because they did not issue it and therefore have no idea.

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I am applying directly to the TUM.

 

While applying for the work permit, I expalined the same: official transcript=certified diploma.

For whatever reason, the university system doesnt comprehend this. 

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An embassy notary can certify that the copy of the diploma is a true and correct copy of the original, as long as you present the original. Any notary in the US can also do the same thing, but they need the original to be able to do that, and many notaries require that they make the copy as well. I am a Massachusetts notary but I can't notarize anything here in Germany.

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I did this last semester for TUM. I simply took my certificates with me into town, searched for "notary Munich" on google maps, then walked into the nearest one (happened to be this one: http://notare-basty-haasen.de/die-notare/). The receptionist was a bit surprised that I didn't have an appointment, but she took my certificates and had them certified for me. In the end I waited in their lounge area for around 30 minutes, then was charged a bit over 30 euro total for single notarized copies of 4 certificates. She told me I should make an appointment next time to avoid having to wait. The process was much simpler than I had expected, (although they only took cash (no card facilities), but there is an atm nearby).

If I were to do it again I'd just walk from notary to notary until I found one willing to do it on the spot again, it really doesn't take them much time to copy and sign the documents.

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So... The problem is that you have a course transcript but not a degree certificate, and you need a certified copy of the degree certificate as a certified copy of the transcript won't be accepted, and your University in the USA doesn't issue degree certificates..? What do you hang on your wall?? I've never heard of a University not issuing certificates...

If the problem is needing a degree certificate instead of a transcript, your only option may be to contact your university and plead your case and see if they can make a proper certificate for you.

 

My situation was obviously different because I studied in Australia and my University provides us with both a degree certificate AND a transcript. I never got around to getting my degree framed (I swear I will do it one day, 7 years and counting isn't too bad, right? Plus this way it's a lot easier to carry around when I need to), but I made sure to scan both the degree and transcript and print out a few copies to get certified for whenever I need. When I got to Germany, I had to have copies certified here (they wouldn't accept copies certified in another country)- I took a few copies, along with the originals, to the local church and had the Priest certify them. This was accepted when I applied for part time work in a lab at Göttingen University. I didn't even know there was notary offices!!

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I think it is a cultural thing. Germans want the certificate that proves you finished, in the US the important document is the transcript.

 

The Germans want proof of your degree, you can take your actual diploma from your university to a certified translator and they will charge you 50euros or so for an official translation. But check if you need to spend the money, they might accept simply seeing it in the original.

 

Americans (and others) are interested in the official transcript which gives courses taken and grades. So an American uni will provide an official transcript. The diploma is the proof of degree, but you only get one.

 

Most of the time, the uni here will settle for seeing the original and a copy of the degree and an official transcript. Don't get too hung up on the technicalities/specific language, they simply want to verify you finished. A smile gets you much farther than trying to explain why your uni won't issue a second diploma.

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hey @ElizabethJT did you ever figure out a way with this? currently in the same situation.. applying to a master's at TUM and I need a notarized copy of my official diploma. I have my original diploma with me, do you know where I can get it notarized? will the U.S. embassy in Munich do it sufficiently? thanks

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My Open University Diploma (German) was accepted as a B1 substitute at my Einbürgerung interview.

I took the original Diploma plus the accompanying course result letter from the Open University, along with certified (beglaubigt von einem amptlich vereidigten Übersetzer) copies and translations of both.

 

For anybody needing a B1 substitute for the Einbürgerung process, ensure Germanistik is on the translation, not Deutsch.

(British 'A' level may possibly be accepted.)

 

(I can highly recommend  littlemiss@gmx.de  for anybody needing English-German translations, certified or otherwise)

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