Shady employees at Berlin immigration office

35 posts in this topic

I have lived in Germany since 2007--married for two years, but unfortunately it didn't work out. Although I was short of the 3 year marriage rule, being that I was gainfully employed, I was given another aufenthaltstitel allowing me to stay as long as I kept working.

 

In the past 5 years, I have lived in Wiesbaden, Frankfurt, and Nurnberg--with each move, the respective immigration office would give me a Fiktionsbescheinigung that stated I was allowed to work, and once I found a job and had been with the same employer for six months, they would give me an aufenthaltstitel, no problem.

 

That is, until I made a fatal error of deciding to move to Berlin, thinking that an immigration office is an immigration office. Right. Aside from being greeted with "Was wollen Sie?" the woman behind the counter just about ripped my face off, demanding to know why I had quit my other job out of nowhere and moved to Berlin for "no reason." While the other offices would give me a Fiktionsbescheinigung that was valid for 6 months, she gave me one that was valid for a mere TWO months. Topping it off was an "Arbeitsverbot" printed on the additional note section. When I asked what in the freezing hell that was supposed to mean, she gave me a set of forms and said "You may only work with permission. Give this to your prospective employer." I asked why all the other times I had been able to work freely without needing to apply for a work permit, she again bit my head off, shouting (shouting!) that I was not getting any special treatment, etc., and that I cannot work unless it is approved. I re-emphasized that over the past 5 years that I have moved within various cities and each office allowed me to work on a Fiktionsbescheinigung and then later granted me a residence permit--she responded with, "We don't do that anymore. If you are not married or have a child, you need a permit to work, period" and pointed at the door.

 

Fine. I went and found a rather excellent paying job (€13 an hour!) at a warehouse--had my employer fill the form out for me to give to the immigration office. Just my luck, the same bitch was at the counter again...she looked at the paperwork and said, "I'm not submitting this. This isn't skilled work--any unemployed German or legal resident can do this. You may only work at specialized skilled work that you have been trained for or have a degree in." The only word to escape my lips this time was "Aber..." before she went into her shouting tirade again--I left without arguing this time.

 

Found another job through an Arbeitsvermittlung, this time had the employer overdress the job description, and this time the woman accepted the form and said she would send it to the Bundesagentur for Arbeit.

 

After 4 weeks and no answer (effectively causing me to lose that job as well!), I panicked and consulted an immigration attorney and here is where my utter shock and disgust began:

 

1. According to §9 BeschVO, if I have either lawfully lived in Germany for a minimum of 3 years or have worked for a minimum of 2 years I don't need a work permit (which explained why the other offices freely granted me permission to work on a Fiktionsbescheinigung)

2. He had accessed my files and found absolutely no notes or acknowledgement that I had submitted an application for a work permit, nor were there any copies of the work contract I had included it (but lots of angry commentary about me quitting my last job and moving to Berlin)

3. He had never heard of someone being given a mere two months on a Fiktionsbescheinigung unless the intent was to finalize a conclusion--in this case to send me packing. All because I decided to move to Berlin.

 

He is currently negotiating with them, but I am wondering--being that this woman FLAT OUT LIED about me needing to have a work permit despite me having lived in Germany for 9 years and worked for over 5 years (even telling me "We don't do that anymore") and being that her recalcitrant attitude costed me TWO job offers, is it possible to file some sort of sanction against her (or the office) for damages? There is absolutely no excuse for this kind of behavior in an official workplace. I understand they are swamped with refugees and all, but it shouldn't mean resorting to shady tactics like this to bump people off the map and send them packing! I have played by the rules for the past 9 years, they need to play by the rules too and not make it up as they go along!

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4 hours ago, Ben_Forman said:

 

 Aside from being greeted with "Was wollen Sie?" the woman behind the counter just about ripped my face off, demanding to know why I had quite my job...

 

 

Welcome to Berlin where it's easy to get "barked at", esp. at the Ausländerbehörde. My question is why don't you have an NE, if you've been here for so long?

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You have the right to submit a formal complaint against an employee of a city or state government.  It's called a Dienstaufsichtsbeschwerde.  I think you will have to do this first and then sue in administrative court for damages. 

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Agree with Rhody. Submit a formal complaint about her, she seems to be incompetent.

 

But...

 

I am quite surprised you've lived in Germany for 9 years as an auslander and didn't know the law that governs residency and work permits. Heck, you could have applied for German citizenship already! So a bit of your own fault actually.

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According to wiki as a non-EU or Swiss resident you have to renounce your original citizenship to become German.

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2 hours ago, klubbnika said:

Agree with Rhody. Submit a formal complaint about her, she seems to be incompetent.

 

But...

 

I am quite surprised you've lived in Germany for 9 years as an auslander and didn't know the law that governs residency and work permits. Heck, you could have applied for German citizenship already! So a bit of your own fault actually.

 

Or you could be surprised that someone who works in the auslander amt every day doesn't know the law that governs residency.

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1 hour ago, Ben_Forman said:

Did

Let's get a few things straight:

 

#1: Someone with reputation as bad as yours has absolutely no business whatsoever giving any kind of criticism. I'll wait a moment for you to duct tape your mouth shut before I move to the next point.

 

#2 The fact that you suggest that I could have applied for a German citizenship shows YOUR ignorance, in that it implies I would freely renounce my citizenship. 

 

#3 Nothing irks me more than this persistent "You've been in Germany 10 years and you didnt know about the Paragraph 3 section 5b Clause 2a law?" attitude that I continue to see on this forum. My 9 years in Germany was spent working and going to school, not studying German law, thank you very much. The only time I have needed to deal with immigration affairs has been a grand total of FOUR times in 9 years (the first 3 times going smoothly and not even requiring for me to employ a lawyer). In fact, with the other offices, the personnel themselves were very helpful in advising me which options I had for acquiring a permit.

 

So stick that in your ignorant pipe and smoke it!

Rude!

 

Did you speak like that in Berlin immigration office too? No wonder people treated you like they did then.

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something similar happened with me "regarding very bad attitude" at the Ausländerbehörde Berlin. i went to get my blue

card. i arrived on time everything was ok. and this happened:

the lady: here is your blue card, do you have any questions?

me: thanks, actually i would like to ask you a question.

the lady: i am not here to answer you questions!!!

 

i just took the card and left. i can understand your situation no way to discuss stuff with some people!!!

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...and there´s ignorance there ( and elsewhere ) about health insurance requirements for visa applicants. Sometimes, people get sent away for having " the wrong insurance " and get " advised " (illegally, in my opinion ) to take out this or that insurance policy...maybe " a friend of the neighbour´s uncle " has the right legal contract? All kinds of stories over the years... 

 

Disclaimer etc..I´m an insurance broker involved with expat issues etc  and bla bla bla. The Ausländeramt  bureaucrats have NO legal right to offer insurance advice to foreigners in their queues. You need a LICENCE for that. And the struggle goes on...

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Maybe next time ask on Toytown before spending money on a lawyer?

You still need a work permit, but you will get it for sure.

If you have been legally living in Germany for at least 3 years, then you can apply for and will get for sure an open work permit (= "Beschäftigung erlaubt") that's not tied to a specific employer. However, this work permit will only allow you to work as an employee, not to be self-employed.

The advantage is that your employer no longer has to prove that he couldn't find an EU citizen for that job, with that open work permit you are treated the same as EU citizens.

 

The law stating this is § 9 "Beschäftigung bei Vorbeschäftigungszeiten oder längerem Voraufenthalt" BeschV: http://www.buzer.de/gesetz/10683/a181618.htm

 

P.S. thank you very much for the laugh on your your job interview thread ;)

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I've met some nasty people at the Ausländerbehörde too. One even told me that I was illegal in Germany when I wasn't! I think some employees are confused themselves and they are going after legal people and leaving the illegal to play around.

 

Seek help from more than one source if you can. Some lawyers make you think you are fully in control when you are not or that you are facing a serious problem. Of course for money. I've paid a lot myself and then found out that I didn't need a lawyer. Good luck. 

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4 hours ago, PandaMunich said:

Maybe next time ask on Toytown before spending money on a lawyer?

You still need a work permit, but you will get it for sure.

If you have been legally living in Germany for at least 3 years, then you can apply for and will get for sure an open work permit (= "Beschäftigung erlaubt") that's not tied to a specific employer. However, this work permit will only allow you to work as an employee, not to be self-employed.

The advantage is that your employer no longer has to prove that he couldn't find an EU citizen for that job, with that open work permit you are treated the same as EU citizens.

 

The law stating this is § 9 "Beschäftigung bei Vorbeschäftigungszeiten oder längerem Voraufenthalt" BeschV: http://www.buzer.de/gesetz/10683/a181618.htm

 

P.S. thank you very much for the laugh on your your job interview thread ;)

 

:o:o

 

Well I just learned something... I always thought that my residence permit would need be tied to a specific job (that passes the Vorrangprüfung) until I could apply for a Niederlassungserlaubnis, so only after 5 years.

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4 hours ago, La Poune said:

Well I just learned something... I always thought that my residence permit would need be tied to a specific job (that passes the Vorrangprüfung) until I could apply for a Niederlassungserlaubnis, so only after 5 years.

 

 there are a few threads about this - I think it comes up if you search for "unrestricted work permit"

 

I divorced my employer after 2 years (see sentence 1 of the law Panda linked), which is the minimum if you're working/paying Rentenversicherung.

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18 hours ago, Uncle Nick said:

According to wiki as a non-EU or Swiss resident you have to renounce your original citizenship to become German.

 

Many people may want that.

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11 hours ago, PandaMunich said:

Maybe next time ask on Toytown before spending money on a lawyer?

 

 

And you know what, I sincerely appreciate the help I get from the community--I can't thank you all enough.

 

But when you have a bulldog at the counter interrupting you, shouting you down, telling you point blank "It's a b and c! No negotiations! I don't to hear it!" and literally pointing at the door--I'm sorry, I need someone to put on the boxing gloves for me! The bureaucrats at the counter have far too much power, they abuse it, and get away with it. (For the record, I'm incredibly suspicious about that permit application that is completely MIA from my files--someone owes an serious explanation for that if it's not what I think it is. And you can't tell me this woman who works daily with immigration law didn't know about Paragraph 9. Either she's too damn stupid to be working there or she was lying about "We don't do that anymore"--which is it?)

 

Yes, hiring a lawyer costed me money, but taking on someone who is sticking her fingers in her ears saying "La la la don't wanna hear it!" was going to require someone with some laut who can make some rather unpleasant things happen (hint: lawsuit). 

 

But again...thanks for the advice and help! All of you!

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Ben I talked to my husband who has worked for the government for years. He said you should sue them, it's the only way they change. (He actually handles lawsuits for the department he works in, not in Berlin though) He said it is crazy how more and more stupid people work in the government.

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I had a similar problem with the berlin abh (might have been the same woman), but was there with my lawyer at the time.  We listened to her nonsense and then asked to see her manager who heard our issue and cleared up the problem right on the spot. The manager did his version of a german eye roll, but gov employees are there for life, so what could he do with her?

I don't think suing is the path you want, just get an immigration lawyer and go back and get what you wanted in the first place.

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