Brexit / Applying for German citizenship

[Berlinexpatnine 28]

I actually didn't provide any proof of continuous residency, but I am not a UK citizen; I assumed they were going to get the information from the Ausländerbehörde. Alternatively, they could see that I had proof of a rental agreement that started when I arrived, supplemented by a current letter showing the latest increase in rent, or they could see I had health insurance that was uninterrupted for more than 10 years. I also brought but didn't show my expired passport showing a string of 1-, and 3-year residency permits. But I was never specifically asked to prove continuous residency. Perhaps they only need specific proof from EU citizens, since they don't have the Ausländerbehörde keeping tabs on them. Continuous residency is required for a non-EU citizen to keep a residency permit.

[paulwork 731]

Intermittent residency is allowed, as long as absent from Germany for no more than 6 months.

[sos-the-rope 619]

23 hours ago, Chris Marston said:

Was anyone here successful with less than 8 years residency in Germany? According to this website, even 6 years could be sufficient if, for example, one's German language skills are good enough. I don't know why my case worker was so adamant that I do not qualify despite C2 and intermittent residence of more than 7 years?

 

How intermittent?

[Chris Marston 61]

23 hours ago, dj_jay_smith said:

Intermittent residency is not enough.  You must have 6-8 years of continuous residency (3 years residency if married to a German for min 2 years).   Nothing else will be accepted, ever!  And you must be able to prove this, a simple anmeldung is not enough proof.

 

C2 language skills are also not enough by themselves for 6 years.  You must also show that you are well integrated into society.  Exactly how is open to discussion, but normally means some kind of club membership, voluntary work etc.

 

Even then you still of course have to meet the other requirements regarding citizenship test, financially able to support yourself & your dependents now and in retirement etc.

11 hours ago, paulwork said:

Intermittent residency is allowed, as long as absent from Germany for no more than 6 months.

This is now confusing. Yes or no?

 

On the website, it stated OR between the requirements which suggested to me that it was sufficient to meet one.

 

47 minutes ago, sos-the-rope said:

How intermittent?

Quite intermittent. Like a good European, I moved back and forth between England and Germany. From the first time I stayed in Germany for a couple of month, I have been back to England on three occasions lasting from 1,5 to 5,5 years. So, I guess if you add it up then I have been absent for more than 6 years.

 

23 hours ago, warsteiner70 said:

 

As well as a min of B2 a lot of times you will also have to show additional integration into the community i.e. volunteering, etc. in order to be able to apply for residency after  years, which will be what the following paragraph on the website you have linked to is talking about:

 

" Zusätzlich zu den nachgewiesenen besonderen Integrationsleistungen sind Nachweise dafür erforderlich, dass die Eingliederung in die deutschen Lebensverhältnisse weit fortgeschritten ist (z.B. im Betriebsrat, in der Jugendarbeit, der Schülervertretung usw.). "

This is what I personally find ridiculous. As if the Germans-by-birth are all volunteering so much for that to be a good measure of integration. I guess having an active social life with German friends doesn't qualify if not taking place within the "Vereinswesen". I presume working as a civil servant is also officially not a sign of successful integration. How idiotic. (Sorry, I had to rant.)

 

 

[sos-the-rope 619]

39 minutes ago, Chris Marston said:

This is now confusing. Yes or no?

 

On the website, it stated OR between the requirements which suggested to me that it was sufficient to meet one.

 

Quite intermittent. Like a good European, I moved back and forth between England and Germany. From the first time I stayed in Germany for a couple of month, I have been back to England on three occasions lasting from 1,5 to 5,5 years. So, I guess if you add it up then I have been absent for more than 6 years.

 

This is what I personally find ridiculous. As if the Germans-by-birth are all volunteering so much for that to be a good measure of integration. I guess having an active social life with German friends doesn't qualify if not taking place within the "Vereinswesen". I presume working as a civil servant is also officially not a sign of successful integration. How idiotic. (Sorry, I had to rant.)

 

 

On 17/06/2019, 10:03:26, Chris Marston said:

Was anyone here successful with less than 8 years residency in Germany? According to this website, even 6 years could be sufficient if, for example, one's German language skills are good enough. I don't know why my case worker was so adamant that I do not qualify despite C2 and intermittent residence of more than 7 years?

 

I think you're justified in feeling it's ridiculous.

 

The standards for citizenship are just that, standards, and rather minimal ones too. They're not meant to cover every possible case, and yours, though not 100% unique I imagine, is indeed not run of the mill.

 

I'd just keep on stolidly looking around for options, maybe the various authorities involved will find some ways to accomodate the more common groups who's fallen through these cracks?

[sos-the-rope 619]

43 minutes ago, Chris Marston said:

 I guess having an active social life with German friends doesn't qualify if not taking place within the "Vereinswesen".

 

 

 

 

To be fair you don't need to be in an official association ("Verein") to do any of the things listed there, you could just volunteer and get a certificate or something.

[Berlinexpatnine 28]

It seems like Chris needs a lawyer to have any hope at all, but the German bureaucracy really seems to function by the principle of "I was just following orders". Even if you are integrated and meet other standards according to the spirit of the law, all that really matters is if you can somehow follow the letter of law. That also seems to be how Germany has ended up with so many "criminal clan" members with German passports. All the news lately in Berlin is about how they are trying to revoke passports of these Arab mafia members, but you have to wonder what system was in place that extended these passports in the first place. It seems like it is both too easy and too hard to get a German passport.

[sos-the-rope 619]

4 minutes ago, Berlinexpatnine said:

It seems like Chris needs a lawyer to have any hope at all, but the German bureaucracy really seems to function by the principle of "I was just following orders". Even if you are integrated and meet other standards according to the spirit of the law, all that really matters is if you can somehow follow the letter of law.

 

I mean, the key word in the example cited (which I haven't fact checked, but seems familiar from my own process) is "proven" - if you can show some evidence, they have to look at it. I carried tons of letters, certificates, etc. for all kinds of extra-curricular stuff around with me to prove my "integration". Some of it I requested specially from people who I'd worked with e.g. kindergarden staff for the parents' comittee. They do have to have evidence, not just a statement from you.

 

I assume in his case it's more about the residence though. They really should have a class-applicable route for EU civil servants who've lived for X months in every single EU state but not enough in any one state to qualify, especially if you worked directly for the EU. But "should" doesn't make the laws.

[dj_jay_smith 3,449]

20 minutes ago, sos-the-rope said:

...

I assume in his case it's more about the residence though. They really should have a class-applicable route for EU civil servants who've lived for X months in every single EU state but not enough in any one state to qualify, especially if you worked directly for the EU. But "should" doesn't make the laws.

 

I read an article where British families living in Belgium for 10+ years are not eligible for citizenship because they are there as civil servants.  This means that technically they are not resident in Belgium as normal citizens so are not eligible for citizenship.

 

 

But of course such people get more benefits than normal citizens in terms of tax, and tax free benefits.  So I guess you can't have your cake and eat it!

 

 

 

[sos-the-rope 619]

2 minutes ago, dj_jay_smith said:

have your cake and eat it

 

[Chris Marston 61]

I am, in fact, a civil servant for NRW. As a teacher with Beamtenstatus, German wife and kid, I feel fairly well integrated. What I don't have is the spare time at my hand to do volunteer work on top of family and teaching.

 

I want my cake (dual citizenship) and eat it.

[dj_jay_smith 3,449]

6 minutes ago, Chris Marston said:

I am, in fact, a civil servant for NRW. As a teacher with Beamtenstatus, German wife and kid, I feel fairly well integrated. What I don't have is the spare time at my hand to do volunteer work on top of family and teaching.

 

I want my cake (dual citizenship) and eat it.

 

Then if you have a German wife you need to live in Germany for 3 years only (and have been married for 2)!

 

[Chris Marston 61]

I know. I am way passed three years but we did not rush to marry. We will see whether this will eventually mean that I cannot have my cake if a machismo PM takes the UK out of the EU on 31 Oct. 2019. I always tell myself: "Keep calm and drink tea" but House of Cards 3.0 is too exciting.

[hamburger jambo 15]

Received my citizenship today.My application was made on the 28th of February .The case worker confirmed that they are trying to process British applications as quickly as possible before the UK leaves the EU,at least here in Hamburg.

[Acton 1,616]

So HJ, do you now have dual nationality? (Sorry haven't read this thread).

 

I have just received an unlimited resident permit, same as a green card in the USA, so don't have to go through these kind of hoops.

 

Frankly, I never wanted to be German anyway.

[Chris Marston 61]

22 minutes ago, Acton said:

So HJ, do you now have dual nationality? (Sorry haven't read this thread).

 

I have just received an unlimited resident permit, same as a green card in the USA, so don't have to go through these kind of hoops.

 

Frankly, I never wanted to be German anyway.

I feel sorry for you.

 

Brits can keep their British nationality when they apply for and fulfil the material conditions of German citizenship before a no-deal Brexit or during a currently somewhat unlikely transition period. TLDR: Yes.

 

Congrats, HJ !

[Acton 1,616]

22 hours ago, Chris Marston said:

I feel sorry for you.

What a stupid thing to say.

I have a German wife who is proud to be German and I am proud to be British.

Seems as if pride is nothing to be proud of these days.

Maybe I should start a new movement? MBGA!!

Do you think it might catch on?

[hamburger jambo 15]

Yes i now have dual nationality.They gave a form to take with my when i apply for my ID card and passport which states quite cleary i can keep my British passport.Just waiting for my invitation to attend a reception held in the Hamburg rathaus

Thanks for the congrats everyone

[Acton 1,616]

For what?

[anne k 3,643]

Im proud to be German and British.

Acton, what kind of (truly) permanent residency do you have? Not the one for EU citizens, presumably?