Brexit / Applying for German citizenship

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On 1/27/2017, 7:25:06, bobD said:

I am gathering the paperwork at the moment.

 

I did a B1 online test...

Gulp.

I might need to work on that.

 

Do you remember where you did the B1 test? I'd like to give it a shot.

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On 1/27/2017, 7:25:06, bobD said:

 

 

I've now decided to apply for German citizenship in the hope that I can get it through before Brexit. I know, I know!!

 

I guess I have to get the application form from  Kreisverwaltungsreferat (KVR). Does anyone know if I have to make an appointment or do I just turn up and pick up an application? It appears that I just have to show that I have booked a B1 exam. I don't need to have the results to hand to put in an application, right?

 

K Thx Ciao

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48 minutes ago, kthxcia said:

 

I've now decided to apply for German citizenship in the hope that I can get it through before Brexit. I know, I know!!

 

I guess I have to get the application form from  Kreisverwaltungsreferat (KVR). Does anyone know if I have to make an appointment or do I just turn up and pick up an application? It appears that I just have to show that I have booked a B1 exam. I don't need to have the results to hand to put in an application, right?

 

K Thx Ciao

 

You can just turn up for the advisory meeting, I was waiting around about an hour before I was seen. At the time I had no B1 or Einbürgerungstest certificates or appointments. Depending if you're self-employed or not they give you a list of document requirements they need to proceed. Once you have all your documents ready, you can book an appointment with them to handover the documents.

 

I have almost everything ready now, waiting on the Einbürgerungstest certificate before making my handover appointment.

 

Good luck!

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It depends on the state you live in and its regulations. We are in Brandenburg and they will not allow the process to even begin until you have all the documents and the B1 cert. complete. This has become a problem for OH, who has the Einburgerungs test and passed the oral B1 but failed the written. No flexilblity or willingness to grant a reasonable exemption, even though at 70 he will not be job-seeking, owns house, grown up kids employed here, me an EU citizen (thanks Ireland!) and employed etc.

I really think there should be a federally applicable law on this. In Berlin I know older people who were grated citizenship without the B1 because there it is discretionary, other things being equal.

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"Depending if you're self-employed or not they give you a list of document requirements they need to proceed." 

 

Yup... Previous two years Steuerbescheid. They want to see that your Gewinn is over 20K, not turnover, but Gewinn /profit. 

 

Mine wasn't and I was refused. 

 

However, they are now considering whether my savings (held in various funds in the UK) will get me over the threshold. 

 

Fuck this bureaucracy, but most of all fuck those blinkered, jingoistic little Englanders. And the Welsh, obviously. 

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On 08/04/2019, 11:13:46, Tschami said:

"Depending if you're self-employed or not they give you a list of document requirements they need to proceed." 

 

Yup... Previous two years Steuerbescheid. They want to see that your Gewinn is over 20K, not turnover, but Gewinn /profit. 

 

Mine wasn't and I was refused. 

 

However, they are now considering whether my savings (held in various funds in the UK) will get me over the threshold. 

 

Fuck this bureaucracy, but most of all fuck those blinkered, jingoistic little Englanders. And the Welsh, obviously. 

Hi

if you don’t mind me asking what area or Landkreis are you?

Im self employed & the same figure was mentioned to me, but I was thinking Netto income ( no no one said that) when she said 20,000€ & not gewinn, I stupidly didn’t ask further. Did they say to you definitely that it was Gewinn?

 

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Tschami, can’t you get some of your funds transferred over to Germany? Might be a good idea anyway once the UK is outside the EU...

 

 

 

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EJM... Netto is essentially Gewinn. Brutto would be turnover, or Umsatz. 

 

20,400€ is the figure I have in my head, but they want to see that you are at least near that. Due to mum being diagnosed with leukemia in 2017 and succumbing to it in 2018 I hadn't worked much and obviously my money was way down. 

 

The girl said that the rules is the rules and as such I didn't qualify. 

 

Munich, BTW. 

 

@ Billy.... I might, but I've always been reluctant for the German authorities to be aware of what I have tucked away. A lot of it is tied up in SIPP in the UK and as such is tax free and only available once I'm 55 or something. 

 

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8 hours ago, Tschami said:

EJM... Netto is essentially Gewinn. Brutto would be turnover, or Umsatz. 

 

20,400€ is the figure I have in my head, but they want to see that you are at least near that. Due to mum being diagnosed with leukemia in 2017 and succumbing to it in 2018 I hadn't worked much and obviously my money was way down. 

 

The girl said that the rules is the rules and as such I didn't qualify. 

 

Munich, BTW. 

 

@ Billy... I might, but I've always been reluctant for the German authorities to be aware of what I have tucked away. A lot of it is tied up in SIPP in the UK and as such is tax free and only available once I'm 55 or something. 

 

Netto is not directly Gewinn

Gewinn is what you „Gewinn“ after costs are deducted & then to come at Netto sum - tax & health insurance etc..are also deducted, then you have your netto sum.

 I totally feel for you & can relate my 2018 is also significantly down compared to last 5 years due to having had to be a lot in uk last 3 months of 2018.

Munich is renowned for being really strict, I’m also Munich but Landkreis. Are you Landkreis or Munich city?

 I really hope you find a way.

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53 minutes ago, EJM. said:

Netto is not directly Gewinn

Gewinn is what you „Gewinn“ after costs are deducted & then to come at Netto sum - tax & health insurance etc..are also deducted, then you have your netto sum.

 I totally feel for you & can relate my 2018 is also significantly down compared to last 5 years due to having had to be a lot in uk last 3 months of 2018.

Munich is renowned for being really strict, I’m also Munich but Landkreis. Are you Landkreis or Munich city?

 I really hope you find a way.

Its a real shame that its not possible to go to any office within your state, that way we could avoid the places with a rather less helpful beamter :( It seems the one I was trying to deal with is known to be very strict, and with someone else who had been here 30 years would not listen even to putting the application on the computer so that it was logged as started before 29 March. 

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Getting back to the monthly income story. Here in Frankfurt I gave all my stuff to my tax advisor: dividends, rental income etc. and she wrote a nice formal letter with stamp & seal confirming my monthly income. I would have thought that if I still had overseas funds (in the UK) she would have added that into the equation too. I am pretty sure this kind of “official” document carries weight with Govt. officials wherever. Surely worth a try if you are getting stones put in your path...

 Also, with regard to stuff overseas I have been led to believe that you only really get put under the magnifying glass if the Authorities have reason to believe you are up to monkey business. A friend of mine whose job it is to keep us safe says they are far too understaffed for all the little stuff. Just have to watch out if you are claiming any kind of state assistance though.

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While it sucks, I understand the rationale behind it. 20k a year is not really enough to live on as an individual, given housing costs etc.

 

on another note, I got an invitation to my appt at the ABH for a residence permit today. They basically said that you can’t change your appointment as they are too busy so you have to just take it. Mine was scheduled for the end of May. As I already received citizenship I have contacted them to cancel, but it may be useful for others in the thread.

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Of course you can change appointments.

I had a message today from them and replied that I won't be here in Germany then, Holiday is booked and we are going.

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But strangely, 1200€/month Brutto is enough to live on for the  lady at the bakery.... 

 

Besides, my half of the rent was paid through my business; need to store tools and write invoices somewhere. As was the motor. 

 

Isn't that the point of being self employed? ;)

 

Got a phone call today from the lady at the Amt. She said that if I had a job (white lie... Told them I had a job offer) with an unbefristeten vertrag, and that the job would leave me with 480€/month after tax and the rent has been paid I could have citizenship. 

 

@EJM. Munich City. But I think it's all handled at the same Amt. Might be wrong, mind. 

 

Oh, @Billy... Thanks previously for your time, but in the end I didn't take your advice. I put everything down on the form. And she pointed out that hadn't I done so she would have found out and then had to anzeig me for Betrug. Supposedly if it's only a slight misdemeanour and your fine was less than 90 days money you're all good. Not meant to be böse, just saying.

 

Anyone want to employ an unreliable Langschläfer full-time and pay me 1800€/month? No? Thought not... 😁 

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Hi everyone. I'm new here, though a long-time visitor. I have a question or two to throw out there.

I'm a Brit who moved to Germany in October 2016. I married my wonderful German wife in November 2017. So this November, I will meet the very minimum requirements for German nationality, ie three years in Germany and two years married to a German.  

I want to keep my UK nationality. I understand that Germany has made a generous exception for people to apply and keep both, as long as the application is filed while Britain's EU membership, or a transition period, is ongoing.

Imagine my joy then at the news this morning that the new Brexit cut-off point is October 31. Hence my inquiry.

Is there any point in me doing anything towards an application for citizenship if this whole thing might be a waste of time because I can't keep both? If so, what should I do first knowing that it could be a gamble and fail?  

Assuming Prime Minister Boris delivers a hard Brexit on Nov. 1 or Macron says non this time round, is there any tiny chance the nice Germans could ignore the dual nationality thing if it's just a matter of a few days?

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40 minutes ago, Harting said:

...

is there any tiny chance the nice Germans could ignore the dual nationality thing if it's just a matter of a few days?

 

Ha ha!  That made me laugh.  You obviously haven't been in Germany long enough yet!

 

 

In general, there is no harm from performing all the pre-requisites that you need to get citizenship.  Including;  

Taking and passing B1 exam

Taking and passing the Citizenship exam

Getting together all the required documents, getting translations done etc.

 

Also note:  that for the exams it can take 6+ weeks before you get your results and certificates so you need to factor this in, as well as the fact that it might take a while before you can get a place in an exam.

 

 

It has been reported that if you start the process before the UK leaves the EU then you are still eligible for dual citizenship, but the question is, would your local friendly Beamter allow you to start the process before November given that we are only talking about 1 month difference?  I think it really depends on the beamter and others have posted in this thread that some allow 'early' applications and some not.

 

If there is another delay then you are in a good position.  If Germany decides to still allow dual citizenship during the transition period, then you are also OK (although I believe last indication was that this was not possible).   If not, and your beamter is not open then you have wasted time and money, and only you can decide if it is worth it or not. 

 

Obviously taking German to/beyond B1 level will never be a waste, but depending on your current level you might have to pay extra to expedite your learning before the deadline.

 

 

 

And in general, lots of details on this thread, so I suggest to scan through it.

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3 hours ago, Harting said:

Hi everyone. I'm new here, though a long-time visitor. I have a question or two to throw out there.

I'm a Brit who moved to Germany in October 2016. I married my wonderful German wife in November 2017. So this November, I will meet the very minimum requirements for German nationality, ie three years in Germany and two years married to a German.  

I want to keep my UK nationality. I understand that Germany has made a generous exception for people to apply and keep both, as long as the application is filed while Britain's EU membership, or a transition period, is ongoing.

Imagine my joy then at the news this morning that the new Brexit cut-off point is October 31. Hence my inquiry.

Is there any point in me doing anything towards an application for citizenship if this whole thing might be a waste of time because I can't keep both? If so, what should I do first knowing that it could be a gamble and fail?  

Assuming Prime Minister Boris delivers a hard Brexit on Nov. 1 or Macron says non this time round, is there any tiny chance the nice Germans could ignore the dual nationality thing if it's just a matter of a few days?

Well as they say, if you don’t ask you won’t know; however I will say Like many have said its who you get. 30th March was my 8 years in Germany, when I enquired in November (when 1st signs of possible no deal became apparent) I went & spoke with them; & they held strong on 8years ; they wouldn’t even give me a day!!!!

Luckily because of April extension, I have now been able to submit application.

I would say like advised above, go do all pre requirements & then go to office with papers in hand or make an appointment & tell them you have Einbürgerungs test & B1 booked, as you are committed to staying here & ask. If you can provide a valid reason why you wish to hold both eg. Elderly parents in uk that may later need assistance with care for a short period etc..etc.. you might swing it but don’t be suprised if they hold strong to the rules/cut off date but definitely go speak with them.

good luck 

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20 hours ago, Tschami said:

But strangely, 1200€/month Brutto is enough to live on for the  lady at the bakery... 

 

Besides, my half of the rent was paid through my business; need to store tools and write invoices somewhere. As was the motor. 

 

Isn't that the point of being self employed? ;)

 

Got a phone call today from the lady at the Amt. She said that if I had a job (white lie... Told them I had a job offer) with an unbefristeten vertrag, and that the job would leave me with 480€/month after tax and the rent has been paid I could have citizenship. 

 

@EJM. Munich City. But I think it's all handled at the same Amt. Might be wrong, mind. 

 

Oh, @Billy... Thanks previously for your time, but in the end I didn't take your advice. I put everything down on the form. And she pointed out that hadn't I done so she would have found out and then had to anzeig me for Betrug. Supposedly if it's only a slight misdemeanour and your fine was less than 90 days money you're all good. Not meant to be böse, just saying.

 

Anyone want to employ an unreliable Langschläfer full-time and pay me 1800€/month? No? Thought not... 😁 

Well hopefully the door isn’t closed 👍

wow I must be doing something wrong; my rent doesn’t get paid as self employed; I was told the space you can claim for eg office work ( I’m on road rest time) was restricted to specifics , so didn’t bother.

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