Brexit / Applying for German citizenship

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No one really knows what will happen.

 

Say your wife applies now, does she get German citizenship after Article 50 is triggered in March ?

 

My best bet now is hoping that Sturgeon call indyref2 and Scotland goes at it alone.

 

Apart from that I guess we sit back now and watch Davis Davies screw up the negotiations. 

 

 

 

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17 minutes ago, Jannerman said:

One question for the Brexit experts. I'm British (British passport) and I've been in Germany for 14 years or so. My wife is now applying for a German passport and I'm wondering if this will save my neck if things turn sour here for British expats. 

 

One of the experts on this board will be able to answer this I expect.  

 

I think the biggest reason why it would be wise for every UK passport holder to apply for German  citizenship NOW is that you can currently only hold duel nationality in Germany if your other citizenship is from a EU country (this is how the law stands today and is the reason so many Turkish do not have German citizenship as Turkey is not part of the EU).

 

Once the UK is out of the EU, you would have to give up your British citizenship, if you were to apply for German citizenship at a later date.

 

To answer your question I am married to a German, but this does not guarantee me German citizenship.  It is taken into account in my current application, but If I were to divorce then I could envisage problems.

 

My advice is for every EU national in Germany is to apply for German citizenship if you can ASAP.  Once the BREXIT dust has settled it will hopefully be made clear what UK or duel citizenship means for people living in Germany.  Of course it could be waste of time and effort, but I would rather have a little bit of control of my own destiny than let Number 10 call the shots. 

 

One thing is clear BREXIT does not have our interests at the forefront of any negotiations, but we may well be used as bargaining chips.

 

Hope this does not come across so dramatic.

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49 minutes ago, Macca-bb said:

I think the biggest reason why it would be wise for every UK passport holder to apply for German  citizenship NOW is that you can currently only hold duel nationality in Germany if your other citizenship is from a EU country (this is how the law stands today and is the reason so many Turkish do not have German citizenship as Turkey is not part of the EU).

 

This is a point but what if you do this but then after the UK leaves the EU, if they were to say ok, dual is not allowed with non-EU so now you have to choose?  Some people could then be in a worse situation than they are now.  Now they might have their 5 years and have a right to apply for permanent residency when the UK leaves but if they had German citizenship already and renounced it again to keep the UK one?  I am not sure if they could still stay if they did.

 

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The law concerns the event of the naturalization. Basically: a foreigner can be naturalized if he gives up his own citizenship or has the citizenship of an EU member. If you do it now, i.e. when the UK is still a EU member, everything should be fine because your naturalization will have happened before Brexit.

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To get German citizenship will take months, May will trigger Article50 by March. After Article50 is triggered I suspect that will be it and if you don`t have German citizenship by then you will possibly have to give up your British passport. I suspect the key date will be when May triggers Article 50 and not the end of the 2 year period.

 

The transitional deal could also go on for donkey years.

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No, article 50 only triggers the negotiations. UK will continue to be an EU member until either 2 years have passed or until the day specified in the - yet to be negotiated - Brexit treaty. Seeing how slow everything is going (already 200+ days after Brexit vote) and this being uncharted territory I doubt this will happen in 2017. More likely to be 2019 (or total backpedal...).

That said, I wouldn't waste any time at all. Better to play it safe and get the citizenship as soon as possible.

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2 minutes ago, sneaker said:

No, article 50 only triggers the negotiations. UK will continue to be an EU member until either 2 years have passed or until the day specified in the - yet to be negotiated - Brexit treaty.

That said, I wouldn't waste any time at all. Better to play it safe and get the citizenship as soon as possible.

 

Why are you speculating ? The UK could leave the EU by 2030. Everything your stating is pure speculation. 

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2 hours ago, Jannerman said:

One question for the Brexit experts. I'm British (British passport) and I've been in Germany for 14 years or so. My wife is now applying for a German passport and I'm wondering if this will save my neck if things turn sour here for British expats. 

I'm not an expert, but if I were you after 14 years here I would simply apply for the citizenship myself. If you apply now you can keep both passports. I am actually planning to apply myself as well, as I heard recently that EU citizens do not have to give up their multiple citizenships when applying for the German one.

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You suspected "that will be it" as soon as article 50 is triggered but have given no reason at all. The German law says you can keep your citizenship if it's the citizenship of an EU member. The UK will still be an EU member after article 50 has been triggered. Heck, even saying the article 50 triggering will happen by March 2017 is speculation.

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2 minutes ago, Natalia said:

I'm not an expert, but if I were you after 14 years here I would simply apply for the citizenship myself. If you apply now you can keep both passports. I am actually planning to apply myself as well, as I heard recently that EU citizens do not have to give up their multiple citizenships when applying for the German one.

Correct.

https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/rustag/__12.html (2)

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Seems the terms citizenship and passport are getting mixed up all the time here.

 

1. Actually, you apply for citizenship first, which costs ca. 255 Euros,

 

2, then - after receipt of your naturalisation certificate - you apply for your Personalausweis (obligatory), which costs around 30 Euros,

 

3, and if you also want a passport, which is optional and only needed for travelling (that's why it's called Reisepass in German) you apply for that seperately, which costs around 40 Euros.

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More precisely: a German national who is at least 16 years old and lives in Germany must own either Personalausweis or Reisepass. So if you have a Reisepass you don't need a Personalausweis. (but Personalausweis is more practical because it's smaller, sturdier and has your address on top of being cheaper) And a Reisepass will be more expensive than 40 Euro if you are 24+ or need more pages.

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16 hours ago, RenegadeFurther said:

No one really knows what will happen.

 

Say your wife applies now, does she get German citizenship after Article 50 is triggered in March ?

 

My best bet now is hoping that Sturgeon call indyref2 and Scotland goes at it alone.

 

Apart from that I guess we sit back now and watch Davis Davies screw up the negotiations. 

 

 

 

My info was that as long as a person is granted citizenship before the UK leaves the EU, they can have dual citizenship as they still fall under the EU rules.

If a person starts the process but the decision comes after the UK leave, then it may not be possible. Would depend on how any treaty/agreement is set up.

 

As I have said, if anyone wants to apply they should have done so already, if they still want to, do it sooner rather than later. 

The pissing around done by the UK government has given people 9 months or so (from the referendum to end of March) and it could take anther 2 years.

Doesn't have to however. We could be out of the EU sooner than end of March 2019 (end of March being the current date for triggering article 50).

Go the department responsible as son as you can, you need quite a few documents that can taker time to get.

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I won't get my 8 years in Germany until this September. I will apply in any case and just see what happens. Worst case scenario is that at the end of the process I am asked to choose between British and German citizenship. Then I'll just stick with British (British state pension is worth more to me than German citizenship).

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16 hours ago, RenegadeFurther said:

Why are you speculating ?

 

16 hours ago, RenegadeFurther said:

I suspect the key date will be when May triggers Article 50

 

16 hours ago, sneaker said:

No, article 50 only triggers the negotiations

 

Whaaaat?

 

RF, he is not speculating, he is stating a fact. Britain did not leave the EU with the vote, and will not leave the EU with the triggering of Article 50. It will leave the EU whenever the process of leaving is complete. He is not speculating, but you are (visibly). 

 

Sending people into a tailspin with rubbish is not going to help. If people already have the years of residency under their belts, then they should go ahead, collect the bits of paper and get themselves dual citizenship while they can. If they haven't, then like the G man, there's a choice to be made. 

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23 minutes ago, kiplette said:

 

 

 

Whaaaat?

 

RF, he is not speculating, he is stating a fact. Britain did not leave the EU with the vote, and will not leave the EU with the triggering of Article 50. It will leave the EU whenever the process of leaving is complete. He is not speculating, but you are (visibly). 

 

Sending people into a tailspin with rubbish is not going to help. If people already have the years of residency under their belts, then they should go ahead, collect the bits of paper and get themselves dual citizenship while they can. If they haven't, then like the G man, there's a choice to be made. 

 

And you know what happens when Article 50 is triggered ?

 

Believe it or not, but Germany does not like dual citizenship. 

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17 minutes ago, kiplette said:

If people already have the years of residency under their belts, then they should go ahead, collect the bits of paper and get themselves dual citizenship while they can. If they haven't, then like the G man, there's a choice to be made. 

Sound advice.

 

Anyone considering this, start now.

Tip from my side, you will need a birth certificate with an apostila on the back. You can order the birth certificate from the registrar for your birth area and ask them to forward it on for the apostila. I had a copy that would have been ok, but still did this to save me having to send it back to the UK. Cost a little more but was less hassle for me.

You will then need to get that translated (by an office approved to do so).
You also need to take the B1 language test and the citizenship test.

From what I have heard, the documents they ask for can vary, so go in, start the process and see what is required. Do not underestimate the time it can take. B1 and citizenship tests can be hard to come by at short notice and the ones that are, are generally more expensive (I think B1 by Goethe was 160, 105 by VHS), citizenship is 25 at VHS but you may have to wait. plus is that for the application, you only need to have paid for the citizenship test, you do not need to have passed it.
 

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28 minutes ago, cb6dba said:

Sound advice.

 

Anyone considering this, start now.

Tip from my side, you will need a birth certificate with an apostila on the back. You can order the birth certificate from the registrar for your birth area and ask them to forward it on for the apostila. I had a copy that would have been ok, but still did this to save me having to send it back to the UK. Cost a little more but was less hassle for me.

You will then need to get that translated (by an office approved to do so).
You also need to take the B1 language test and the citizenship test.

From what I have heard, the documents they ask for can vary, so go in, start the process and see what is required. Do not underestimate the time it can take. B1 and citizenship tests can be hard to come by at short notice and the ones that are, are generally more expensive (I think B1 by Goethe was 160, 105 by VHS), citizenship is 25 at VHS but you may have to wait. plus is that for the application, you only need to have paid for the citizenship test, you do not need to have passed it.
 

 

Do you know if there are any maximum time constraints on these? i.e the citizenship test cannot have been taken longer than 6 months before the application. If not I would go ahead and do the language test, citizenship test and birth certificate now.

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