Termination of Kabel Deutschland/Vodafone contract is a big problem

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1 hour ago, Worldexpat said:

It appears they didn't. They insist that I have to pay them. Really strange situation, as our initial contract was for 2 years, and the contract I am canceling is not the initial. It seems that there is auto renewal for 1 year, but I am yet to figure out exactly where is that written in the original contract. 

 

Auto-renewal is very common in Germany.  It will be somewhere in the small print.

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You are right again. Yes, while my fault, I tried to reason with them, but … What is the worst that could happen? Anyone gone down that road?

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24 minutes ago, Worldexpat said:

You are right again. Yes, while my fault, I tried to reason with them, but … What is the worst that could happen? Anyone gone down that road?

 

Did you are least cancel it in writing (mail or fax) by now?  If you haven't, you should, in order to avoid them continue to bill you every month.

 

I suppose if you don't pay, they can send it to a collection agency eventually and I suppose it could even go to court.  There will be added fees etc.  I am not sure that you stand a chance against fighting it because they will say that you have 3 months that you have to pay after you cancelled and you did not cancel properly in writing so that is not valid.

 

Now, I am not a lawyer so don't take my word for it but that's is what I suspect will happen.  I just learned a 650€ legal lesson myself.  It's not always as simple as it looks to fight things.  Sometimes you have to let things slide too and write it off as lessons learned.  What you can however try and what doesn't cost anything and doesn't hurt is write some whiny letters about how poor you are and how you thought your email cancellation would be valid and beg them to reconsider.

 

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There is an e-mail somewhere, saved, where they are asking for the new registration confirmation from our new address. I will dig it up and attach to the copy of it and mail to them. Wonder if that would do it. Plus they acknowledged a notification of my address, and I have a screen save of their web site showing that they are not providing internet service at my new place. I wonder would that give me a leg to stand on?! But yes… you are right again. 

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I gave notice to Vodafone recently and their first letter to me stated they were going to charge me for 6 months after I left the address.

I telephoned and spoke to a reasonably friendly English speaker (he was Turkish actually) and he even admitted that the Germans were not always the freindliest or most helpful people sometimes (I will say most times in the case of Vodafone).

I explained my situation that I would be leaving Germany and relocating to France so there would be no possibility of a New German address or reconnection in Germany. He said he would look into it and get back to me. 2 Hours later a different person telephoned me back and was not friendly at all. A German for sure. He just asked which country I was relocating to and when I said France he said ok the notice would be changed to 3 months. I started to speak to him and the phone was put down on me mid sentence! With the aid of my excellent speaking and writing wife we wrote a letter to Vodafone explaining that our move had come about at fairly short notice.

The fact that we had been with KD long before Vodafone came on the scene.

To the point that as I understood our our original contract with KD we could terminate or change our contract almost instantly. We only were Vodafone customers by default due to them taking over and us not changing when they gave us the option in a very vaguely worded letter. "Change or Cancel" if you do nothing within the time period you are in our Grasp!. Well stupid us we did nothing.

I wrote that we were moving to France primarily amongst other reasons to get medical treatment for our blind disabled daughter not availble to her in Germany. Some other inforamtion to stating fair reasons for our move..

Also included copy of the Anmeldung and letters from other who have cancelled our Insurances etc. with no questions or quibbles. Even refunding us the 6 months back of annually paid monies.

Today we go another 'standard' letter from Vodafone re-stating that we were now on the 3 months notice and if we do not return the Hitron modem they will also bill us for that to the fee of 100€ (not worth 10€ btw).

So do we accept the 3 months money down the toilet or do we state that they cannot contractually connect us if we relocate to France and therefore we do not have to pay for 3 months '''Service''' that is impossible for us to have from them?

 

Angry - Annoyed - Dissappointed would be understatements. We have big hassles and pressures and Vodafone make it worse!!!!!

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3 hours ago, .Q. said:

So do we accept the 3 months money down the toilet or do we state that they cannot contractually connect us if we relocate to France and therefore we do not have to pay for 3 months '''Service''' that is impossible for us to have from them?

 

Angry - Annoyed - Dissappointed would be understatements. We have big hassles and pressures and Vodafone make it worse!!!!!

 

There is a TV law that allows them to charge you 3 months notice if you move, even if you move to an area where they can't provide you services.

 

I moved and had to cancel KD before Vodafone took over and they were extremely disorganized.  First they told me there would be no problem providing me services at my new address.  Then they spent a couple of weeks telling me that they either were just about to hook me up the next day or that they had already hooked me up at my new address and that they couldn't understand why it wasn't working.  Then they sent a technician and found that there is no connection at my house.  I was told that I should cancel.  I cancelled with a fairly passive aggressive letter about their incompetence dicking me around that long and they charged me for I think another month after my move.  I complained about that at their call centre and then they said I was lucky because of the TV law, they could have charged me 3 months if they'd wanted to.

 

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Vodafone are crooks. Do not do business with them. The guys in the shop simply lie to you. Not all but most. One guy in a quiet shop out of town was very helpful. He actually told me his colleagues in town were liars and cheats. They were well known for taking advantage of foreigners who could not speak and read German well. They would agree to one thing and add extra unwanted items to your contract simply to get more money from you...

 

 

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1 hour ago, foreign in fatherland said:

blahblahblah

 

Hey FiF, if you're not going to add anything of serious value to the community such as constructive tips or advice then please don't dig up all 983 archived TT threads on Vodafone just to let off steam.

We've heard it all before.  Many, many times.

CAVEAT EMPOR applies worldwide. (Buyer beware!)

Learn your lesson and do the research first next time.

Applying due diligence prior to signing any contract protects both your money and your health.

 

In any event to avoid auto-renewal then, no later than 120 days prior to the date your current contract expires, if you haven't done so already, send them a written cancellation letter thus:
====================================
Kündigungsfrist
 
Ich kündige meinen Vertrag mit der Rufnummer/den Rufnummern... <your phone number/s>
 
Namen mit Adresse und Kunden-Nummer –
 
<Your name and address>
 
Kunden-Nummer: xxxxxxxx
 
Unterschrift und Datum
 
==========================
Send it by post (per Einschreiben mit Empfangsbestaetigung) to:

Vodafone D2 GmbH

Customer Service

40875 Ratingen

 

2B

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SpiderPig - they are crooks. Check out trustpilot - 500 complaining Germans can't be wrong. Please don't use abusive language.

 

2B-orNot2B - Its actually 3 months not 120 days. How about you get your facts right. Also just to help other people 'Kundigungsfrist' is different from 'Kundigung'. One is asking for immediate termination the other for termination at the end of the 'vertrags' period.

 

Looking at many of the as you say 983 archived threads I found not one giving a factual answer to the vodafone english operator service. I researched this and gave my findings as I am sure this will help someone less able than yourself. If you don't like it and you don't have anything useful to add how about  you don't bother?

 

Oh and the best way to communicate with anybody that can actually provide you with some modicum of service is by fax not letter. Write and print your wishes etc, take it into the vodafone shop and ask them to fax it to the 'vodafone team', - the number should you actually have a fax machine is 02102 986575. Don't forget to ask for the 'fax bestatigung' if you go to the shop. I was actually in the shop with my fax from the previous day when an American girl came in asking if they could help her do the same thing. They said this was not possible until I showed my fax...

 

Like I said, liars and cheats.

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16 minutes ago, foreign in fatherland said:

SpiderPig - they are crooks. Check out trustpilot - 500 complaining Germans can't be wrong. Please don't use abusive language.

 

Abusive language as "crooks", "liars", "cheaters"?

 

Quote

2B-orNot2B - Its actually 3 months not 120 days

 

Learn to read. 2B-orNot2B didn't say it's 120 days, he said 

 

"In any event to avoid auto-renewal then, no later than 120 days prior to the date your current contract expires ... send them a written cancellation letter ..."

 

When you send the letter 3 months before the contract expires, it's too late.

 

Quote

How about you get your facts right. Also just to help other people 'Kundigungsfrist' is different from 'Kundigung'. One is asking for immediate termination the other for termination at the end of the 'vertrags' period.

 

No.How about you get your facts right? Kuendigung = termination, Kuendigungsfrist = termination period, immediate termination = fristlose Kuendigung. Can I call you a liar now?

 

And: Of cause you have to insert your termination period, not the word "Kündigungsfrist" in the letter as you have to insert your customer number instead of xxxxxxxx. It's not that difficult, is it?

 

 

 

 

 

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50 minutes ago, foreign in fatherland said:

2B-orNot2B - Its actually 3 months not 120 days. How about you get your facts right. Also just to help other people 'Kundigungsfrist' is different from 'Kundigung'. One is asking for immediate termination the other for termination at the end of the 'vertrags' period.

 

I appreciate your correction of my German.

My brain wasn't being attentive enough to the actions of my fingers.

 

Vodafone contracts, in common with 99% of companies using German standard contract terms, do specify that cancellation in writing must be received by them 3 months before end of contract. Experience, (of those who had failed to consider the possible loophole this offers the contract provider), has shown that it is imminently better for a cancellation letter to arrive 3 - 4 weeks early rather than 1 day late.

 

Quote

Oh and the best way to communicate with anybody that can actually provide you with some modicum of service is by fax not letter. Write and print your wishes etc, take it into the vodafone shop and ask them to fax it to the 'vodafone team', - the number should you actually have a fax machine is 02102 986575. Don't forget to ask for the 'fax bestatigung' if you go to the shop. I was actually in the shop with my fax from the previous day when an American girl came in asking if they could help her do the same thing. They said this was not possible until I showed my fax.

 

Whether a fax with bestaetigung or a written letter with an official Deutsche Bundespost confirmation of delivery is 'the best way to communicate with anybody that can actually provide you with a modicum of service' or not is moot.

 

If a dispute arises which ends up in a German court you could find a fax or email may not be recognized by that court.

 

The fact that both email and fax communication rely on means of transfer and reproduction which are, or may be, subject to technical failure is a legally recognized form of defense in Germany. You needn't take my word for that though because IANAL. However there are numerous examples of German courts disregarding emails or faxes in evidence. If you wish to do your own research on the subject then you could try JuraForum.de: Collection of German Legal Weblinks or Rechtsindex | Recht & Urteile  or kostenlose-urteil.de

 

All the best with your struggle, but please keep the misinformation to a minimum.

2B

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I have been having a nearly identical problem with Kabel Deutschland.  I gave 3 months notice before moving to the United States in February. At first they wanted more proof that I actually left Germany. I sent them my new job contract, my new housing contract in the USA, and the deregistration form by registered mail.  I thought that the matter was settled.  Then I start getting bills at my US address!  The say that they can charge me from the date that I moved for an additional three months, and the three months notice that I gave prior to that doesn't count.  I have sent several angry emails, and they said that the matter was resolved and that I would receive all further correspondence by post.  I haven't received anything in the mail, and when I email them again, they give me the same form letter response that I owe 100 euros, please pay immediately, etc. 

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Just ignore it, they won't come after you for a hundred Euros. Second alternative is to tell them you no longer have a German bank account and offer to pay them by cheque. The costs and hassle of cashing a personal cheque aren't worth it. Third alternative is agsin simply send them 12 post dated hand written cheques, you've covered your ass, the fact they can't deal with cheques isn't your issue. Oh and of course always write in English. 

 

finally if you feel ethical obligation to pay (and some here do why????j than see if some one can do an uberwesiung for you.

 

good luck and update us

 

 BTW I'm assuming you've closed your bank account and have no more income here. 

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Yes, my German bank account is closed.  I am going to stop with the emails and send a registered letter where I once again spell out that I have given three months notice, etc. and if they want me to pay, they need to send me an itemized bill by FedEx or registered mail to my US address.  I will tell them that I will not move forward until I have received an official response to my letter.  Considering that they never responded to my other letters, I will wait and see how they respond.  If they don't respond, I won't pay.   

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Update - 2300 euro repayment from vodafone. Promise of contract to be cancelled. Money has arrived but they still are taking payments from my bank account. Time for more fax communications. This company is a joke...

 

cheers!

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Hi all,

Note: When I sign my contract with Vodafone they guy made so many promises but none were true. They lie to you until you sign the contract and then you have to deal with them. 

I have not dealt with other internet providers in Germany, but STAY AWAY FROM VODAFONE.

 

 

I am going through the same situation, I had a two-year contract with Vodafone and I send them a cancelation letter to cancel my subscription, however, they told me I have to wait for another year. The reason is that I was too late when I send the cancellation letter. My letter suppose to be there 3 months before the contract ends, however, now I have to wait for another year.  

 

cheers.

 

 

 

 

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Yes, read the contract ... 3 months cancellation notice. Your late cancellation will be adhered to, just a bit later like next year.

 

There was a time when I had a vodafone mobile contract but it was too expensive for the low number of calls I made. Sadly I missed the 3 month deadline by literally a few days. The contract was cancelled a year later despite all their calls and offers of a better contract.

 

This doesn't make them crooks, it just caused me a bit of a financial headache because I was a few days late.

Mea culpa.

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I want to inform people about my case with Vodafone Deutschland to give you an idea of what kind of company this is. It's a bit of a long story, but it's interesting. I went to a store in Sep 2016 and signed up for a package deal for two sim cards (with a limited amount of internet: just 500 MB per month for each card) and unlimited DSL internet service to our home. We weren't interested in using the internet on our phones; they were just for sms and phone calls, but we needed unlimited internet from our DSL service. It was a typical two year contract. It all started well enough, until January came, when we had to change address. 

 

I went to my local store in December sometime to tell them that we were going to change address from Jan. I explained to the man in the store that we would be moving temporarily to another address (for 6 weeks) and then we would be moving again from there to a long term address. What should I do in this case I asked him? He said it was not a problem, that Vodafone would provide internet service at our temporary address, and then later would have it switched to our permanent address once we moved there. The man took all the details and told me that the service at our original address would be disconnected on our moving out date and a Telekom technician would come and connect our DSL service at the new address shortly after we moved in. But the technician did not come on the day that Vodafone said he would come, so I returned to the store to find out what happened. The man in the store contacted Vodafone by phone and discovered that the technician had gone to the address that we had just moved out of to connect our DSL service there, rather than to the house that we had moved into. Ok fine, mistakes can happen, I don't have a problem with that.

 

At this point, he suggested arranging for another technician to come to our new address to connect the DSL service. As a couple of weeks had already gone by and it would take another couple of weeks to set up the new DSL service, I told him it wasn't worth sending a technician to our temporary address. I decided that it would be better to simply arrange for a technician to come to our permanent address in a few weeks' time. So we made arrangements for that. A few weeks later, we moved in, and a technician came and connected the DSL service and everything was fine. I thought the issue was done with. But this is when our real problems began.

 

About 3 days later the internet service stopped working completely. As many foreigners know, it's extremely difficult to speak to anyone from Vodafone customer service in English and to get them to do anything about resolving issues. After many attempts on the phone, I went to a Vodafone store near our new address to get help. The person in this store was a woman. She told me that when I had gone to the previous Vodafone store to report the change of address, the man who I had spoken to had created two new accounts in my name: one for the temporary address and then another for the second permanent address.

 

So now I had 3 different accounts in my name (including our original account). In addition, they put the onus on me to go back to the store and tell them to cancel the two extra accounts that had been created in my name without my consent. I wasn't happy about that, but I did it, and the man in the store assured me that the 2 extra accounts had been cancelled. Then I returned to the Vodafone store near my new home to deal with the DSL problem. The woman said that it was not possible to restore the DSL service at our new address and that the best solution would be to switch to Kabel internet service and that it would be up and running within a couple of days. The Kabel service was going to cost me more however. I wasn't happy about that either, because it seemed to me that they were responsible for the whole mess, but I was getting desperate to finally resolve the issue, as I had been without any internet service for well over a month by that point. So we made all the arrangements and I went home and waited.

 

From this point on, the situation just got worse. The Kabel router never arrived, and no Kabel internet service was established and we remained without internet. Then Vodafone sent me a bill which was 3 times the amount that I usually expected to pay per month. I paid the bill, and then I returned to the Vodafone shop and spoke to the same woman again. She told me that I still had 3 accounts in my name and that I had go back to the other store and make them cancel the extra accounts and this time I had to get proof in writing. Meanwhile she assured me that the Kabel service would be sorted very soon. So by now we were nearly two months into this screw up, and I'm still going back and forth from one shop to the other, and I'm still without internet, and I'm being charged triple rates. But what can I do, as a consumer in a situation like this ? All I wanted was to get the internet service restored but I'm at the mercy of this company whose employees seem to be completely incompetent and/or untrustworthy.

 

More time goes by and still nothing happens. Then I get a call from a Vodafone person telling me that I have not paid my internet service bills for the past two months at the original address. I told him that we had left that address months ago and that we had reported the change of address to Vodafone and that we were still waiting to have our internet service restored at our new address ! This guy then told me that it was a complicated case and he could not deal with it, and that I should make a formal complaint in writing and send it to their offices.in Ratigen. He gave me the address, and I wrote the letter and I sent it. There was no response by phone, by letter or by email. 

 

By the end of March I was completely fed up with the situation. I did not want to get into a legal battle with Vodafone, but I needed to find a solution. So I went to see a private lawyer to get a professional opinion. I paid him 65€ to talk to him for 20 minutes, and he told me that I should just tell them in writing that I wanted the contract cancelled, because they hadn't provided the service. He added that Vodafone might then let me go, in recognition of their failure to provide the service I had signed up for, or, they might get nasty and start coming after me for money. In the event of that happening, I should come back and his firm would send a letter to Vodafone which would put an end to the matter. That letter would cost me 300€.

 

I sent Vodafone the letter demanding cancellation of my contract at the end of March.  In the meantime I switched to another provider. I continued to receive bills from Vodafone as if nothing had happened, even though to this day, they have still not restored the internet service (it is now the end of August). After a while, Vodafone handed over the case to a debt collection agency named Infoscore. I then decided that I needed to act. But I did not go back to the lawyer, because I foresaw paying his company a lot of money to send legal letters that would end up costing me much more than the whole phone and internet contract. Instead I went to the Verbraucherzentrale (a consumer rights organisation) and they agreed to help me. The appointment only cost me 15€. However, before taking up my case, they told me that I should send one more letter to Vodafone, demanding that they restore my internet service within 2 weeks, otherwise I would consider the contract definitively null and void. I sent that letter and I waited. There was absolutely no response. So after 2 weeks I returned to the Verbraucherzentrale and paid them 20€ to start corresponding with the debt collection agency on my behalf.

 

This case is ongoing now, and they have started court proceedings against me. I don't see any sign that Vodafone is going to let up. You could argue I suppose that I signed a contract and therefore I must pay. But the way I see it, they did not live up to the terms of the contract, and in this day and age, it is impossible to live and work and do everything else without internet service. Both the lawyer that I consulted and the Verbraucherzentrale told me that I was in the right. In the end, what mystifies me is, why couldn't they just fix the problem ? Are they really so incompetent, or perhaps they just don't care, or what ? We've all had problems with phone companies at one time or another, but this case is just baffling to me.

  

 

 

 

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25 minutes ago, Umarell in Berlin said:

I want to inform people about my case with Vodafone Deutschland to give you an idea of what kind of company this is. It's a bit of a long story, but it's interesting. I went to a store in Sep 2016 and signed up for a package deal for two sim cards (with a limited amount of internet: just 500 MB per month for each card) and unlimited DSL internet service to our home. We weren't interested in using the internet on our phones; they were just for sms and phone calls, but we needed unlimited internet from our DSL service. It was a typical two year contract. It all started well enough, until January came, when we had to change address. 

 

You are not alone.  When I moved in 2015, I was without internet, telephone and TV for about 3 months.  I also ended up with something like 3 different accounts.  However, I was lucky I was only charged for something like 3-4 weeks of services that weren't provided and I never paid extra for the extra accounts.

 

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