Abmeldung requirements as of November?

20 posts in this topic

Hello,

 

I'm looking into the abmeldung process, and I found this page:

 

 https://service.berlin.de/dienstleistung/120335/

 

It says


    Auszugsbestätigung des Wohnungsgebers (Vermieter)
    Seit dem 1. November 2015 ist der Wohnungsgeber verpflichtet, dem Meldepflichtigen den Auszug bis zu 7 Tage vor oder nach dem Auszug schriftlich mit Unterschrift zu bestätigen. Die Bestätigung muss folgende Daten enthalten: Name und Anschrift des Wohnungsgebers, Auszugsdatum, Anschrift der Wohnung und Namen der meldepflichtigen Personen.
    Ein Muster für die Auszugsbestätigung des Wohnungsgebers steht Ihnen unter "Formulare" zur Verfügung.

 

Google translate doesn't create something coherent, but I think it says that to abmelden it is now necessary to get the landlord to fill out a form? I guess this would have to be done before the appointment at the burgeramt to do the abmeldung? Can someone confirm? Is there any indication of whether that is only if you are the hauptmieter? Or an indication that the hauptmieter should sign it if moving out of a WG?

 

Thanks!

 

Steve.

 

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Thanks RelativeDimensions,

 

To be clear, you wrote 'register', but I am talking about 'abmeldung'/'deregistering'.

 

 

I'd still like to see other interpretations of the text I quoted, as I am still not clear regarding what I asked about hauptmeiters etc. Looking at the linked form also does not make it more clear to me.

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So what happens when you're an Untermieter and the Hauptmieter never let the Hausverwaltung know that you were there? (I'm just finding this out now that I'm about to move).

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I've read the form mentioned above (I speak German), and also some German real estate forums on this:

 

- Yes, the form has to be filled out when when moving OUT, too.

 

- The Hauptmieter (main tenant) has to fill out the form for the Untermieter (sub letter), or run the risk of a fine.

The form wants the details of the owner/landlord, too.

 

The latter can get sticky if the owner didn't know about the Untermieter.

In fact, I suspect that's one of the reasons why this form was instituted (aside from finding people who dropped out of the registration system). For the better or worse, under the table sublets are going to be more difficult now. (BTW, visitors for a few weeks and tourists don't have to register or get the form.)

I recommend asking the owner officially for permission to sublet in the future. I suggest to introduce a prospective Untermieter to the owner.

 

Some common sense thoughts, NOT LEGAL ADVICE:

- This regulation is brand new.
If you're moving out just now, maybe (just maybe as in my unqualified opinion) you could quietly drop the moving out form, and only present the moving in form at registration, and see what they say. You can always argue you moved out before Nov. 1, and were staying elsewhere as a visitor.

IMHO they'll be glad you came at all.

 

- Is the Hauptmieter moving out, too? Could you say  he's gone, no idea where to if there are questions?

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Thanks Metall, I also have the feeling they're more interested in where I'm going and not where I'm coming from.  I have the "moving in" form from the new landlord, so hopefully they'll be satisfied with just that.  The Hauptmieter isn't moving out, but she's not in the country, so I could say I had no way to get the form, but I also like your idea of saying I moved out before 1 Nov, and that I was just staying somewhere temporarily before finding the new apartment.  

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It always is dangerous to second guess German bureaucracy (as they can cross check with other offices), or to hope they will be nice.

 

Any, ah, little lies one may have to tell them always must be as close to the truth as possible and well founded.

An absent Hauptmieter sounds pretty good to me if you really are pressured for an answer, or need to prove something. Also, never volunteer any information not  asked for! :)

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10 hours ago, steveire said:

Thanks RelativeDimensions,

 

To be clear, you wrote 'register', but I am talking about 'abmeldung'/'deregistering'.

 

 

I'd still like to see other interpretations of the text I quoted, as I am still not clear regarding what I asked about hauptmeiters etc. Looking at the linked form also does not make it more clear to me.

Yes, you write about de-registering in your topic title, but you quote requirements for registering. To clarify:

1. You need permission of your landlord to register at your new address.

2. You don't need anyone's permission to de-register, just show up with your passport and that's it.

3. You only need to de-register if you leave Germany. If you move within the country, you register at your new address (with the permission from your new landlord) and specify the old address in the registration form. The Rathaus will automatically de-register you at your old address.

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On 12/14/2015, 1:20:46, yourkeau said:

Yes, you write about de-registering in your topic title, but you quote requirements for registering. To clarify:

1. You need permission of your landlord to register at your new address.

2. You don't need anyone's permission to de-register, just show up with your passport and that's it.

3. You only need to de-register if you leave Germany. If you move within the country, you register at your new address (with the permission from your new landlord) and specify the old address in the registration form. The Rathaus will automatically de-register you at your old address.

 

 

Hi sorry for sounding stupid but I was just checking the web and got worried about what I should do. Here is my situation:

 

1. I have already booked my ticket for leaving Germany in the first week of January.

2. My landlord will come and get the keys, inspect the house, cancel the contract and ... on the day before my flight.

3. I would cancel my Energy contracts on the same day (the day before my flight) right after I finish my work with my landlord.

 

The big question is: can I de-register a few days before my rent contract is cancelled? Would that be possible or they need some kind of documents related to my rent contract cancellation for de-registering?

 

I need the de-registering papers to cancel my health insurance, house insurance and some other crazy contracts. 

 

 

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On 12/14/2015, 1:20:46, yourkeau said:

Yes, you write about de-registering in your topic title, but you quote requirements for registering. To clarify:

 

The page I quoted from is clearly about 'abmeldung', and what I quoted is about 'Auszug' and 'Auszugsdatum'. Given that, I can't reason about your claim that I quoted 'requirements for registering' being correct. Maybe you mis-read everything.

 

On 12/14/2015, 1:20:46, yourkeau said:

2. You don't need anyone's permission to de-register, just show up with your passport and that's it.

 

The person I was asking for did the abmeldung a few days ago. They volunteered the document from the hauptmieter ('I have this - do you need it?') and the amt-worker said yes the document is needed (though obviously because it was volunteered I don't know how flexible they are with it currently). The document is not 'permission'.

 

Thanks! I hope this information helps someone in the future.

 

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I apologize, you're right. This is the new law valid from November 2015 and it's indeed about both An- and Abmeldung (I thought it's only about the former). I've just read it and want to add a clarification: the written confirmation by a landlord is not required exactly at the time you visit the Meldebehörde. They can send this confirmation 14 days after you move in/out (important: not 14 days after you (de)register, but after you physically move in/out), also electronically.

 

I also want to stress, that this is not your obligation, this is obligation of your landlord, however you should inform the Meldebehörde if your landlord refuses (or delays) to pass this information to them.

 

Source: §21 BMG

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My time for deregistering at the Bürgeramt is approaching and, as per usual, there are no available appointments in Berlin for the next couple of months. I constantly check for cancellations but so far have found nothing in the permitted 3-week slot (1 week actually, but I can delay my departure for a week or so for an appointment). Also, it seems that hardly any Bürgeramt offices accept walk-ins any more.

 

I’ve read that I can send them the forms by post but I can’t see how this can work with cancelling health insurance, GEZ etc. To my understanding, I need the Abmeldung confirmation to cancel these services and that arrives weeks later (when I won’t be in the country, which complicates things).

 

Has anybody here deregistered by post or knows how this process works? Any advice would be appreciated.

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I have the same question as tade did, and I haven't really found a definitive answer yet.

 

I'm leaving Germany on September 21st, and I have a cable contract as well as health insurance to cancel. If this law requires that I only get my Abmeldung at most 7 days before I leave, am I really expected to cancel my contracts in such a short time frame (from what I've read, it sounds like I need to show a copy of my Abmeldung to prove that I'm leaving the country in order to cancel my contract with Kabel Deutschland). It sounds incredibly difficult and inconvenient.

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Hi stormeagle6

 

Cancelling health insurance and Kabel Deutschland contracts are somewhat difficult situations both of which will present you with a different variety of frustrating responses to your initial attempt to cancel. That said you can reduce the difficulty, frustration and inconvenience to a minimum if you take early action and are prepared for their objections.

 

Yes, you will eventually have to provide them with an official copy of your Abmeldebescheinigung before either of them will take steps to finalize your cancellation but you can, and should, cancel ahead of time anyway to save money and stress. I'd get on and do it as soon as you can. It is strongly recommended to do so by written snail-mail using the Post's Einschreiben mit Ruckschein  (registered letter with confirmation of delivery receipt) service and including the information that you will send a copy of your Abmeldebescheinigung to them at the time of your departure.

 

Known standard issues:

 

KD

 

Regardless of when they get it, whether you've jumped through all the hoops your contract requires or not, Kabel Deutschland will not set an effective date of your cancellation before the date you actually leave your apartment. They may even require a copy of your signed handover agreement (Wohnungsübergabebestätigung) as confirmation, in addition to your Abmeldebescheinigung!

 

As of that effective date they will still require payment for 3 further months. As unfair as this may be the TV distribution services law does allow for them to demand these payments and, since they became a Vodafone subsidiary, they have steadfastly enforced their right to do so.

 

If you will be closing your German bank account/s before leaving it may be in your own best interest to transfer those 3 months payments in advance prior to doing so.

 

Krankenkasse

 

They will tell you they cannot initiate your cancellation until you have provided proof of contractual acceptance from your follow-on health insurer. This is because they are required by law to ensure that no-one in Germany is allowed to cancel their health insurance unless they are equally insured immediately thereafter. That they are also German bureaucrats means, for the most part, they have their own natural difficulties when coping with any situation which doesn't conform to the DIN-standard norm.

 

Don't worry about that though because you can at least talk to them and, once you've explained v e r y s l o w l y in simple words that you are not only leaving them and Berlin you are also leaving Germany and Europe permanently if not forever, they will tell you if they need any further proof to satisfy their system's rules. Maybe a copy of your Abmeldebescheinigung will suffice although they may also ask for a copy of your flight ticket or maybe even an affidavit from your hometown sheriff's dept certifying your arrival ( j/k with the last one).

 

Below, there's a link to a website where you can get your cancellation letters automatically produced, with the correct addresses, online for free in print-out format or as a PDF. (I believe you can alter the site language too, although I've no experience of how clear their English instructions are). They will offer to send the letters for you by fax and provide a copy of the fax delivery report but my advice, and that of most of the long-term TTers, would be to disregard that offer and use the snail-mail method I outlined above.

 

Experience shows that some organizations in Germany, particularly commercial ones, often encounter immense difficulty in finding e-mail or fax cancellation letters and, should a legal dispute ever arise, many German courts have accepted as a defense of claim the argument that, due to the multiple technical risks involved in electronic transmission, the party concerned had not received a document in a timely manner as their contract specified.

 

Kündigungsschreiben, Vorlagen, Online Kündigung

 

HTH

 

Safe journey and happy landings back at your home erie!

 

2B

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So I am also having similar issues with tying up loose ends in this country before leaving in 4 weeks.

 

So the first thing I would love someone to clarify for me: with the Abmeldung: I am currently on a lease as a subleaser in a w.g. (i.e. not the main tenant) - is it enough to get the Hauptmieter to sign my form as the "Wohnungsgeber" or do I have to chase the landlord down for a signature?

 

Secondly: I read somewhere you should send the Abmeldung in around 3 -4 weeks before you leave to make sure you get the certificate back in time to use as proof when cancelling contracts (health insurance, GEZ etc). But I just read above you should are only able to do it 7 days before leaving... can anybody shed some light on this for me? (I am working right up to the week before I leave, so want to make sure there won't be complications with my wages etc.) 

 

Appreciate any help!

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Hi genista,

 

When my partner left I signed the form as the one who was the hauptmieter. They seemed fine with that at the time, but I think I read something somewhere that the landlord is supposed to do it, so maybe you could look further into that. I think the point of those new rules is to discourage/disable living in Germany without registering properly (with the state and with the landlord - if the landlord has never heard of you then you could have difficulty getting their signature).

 

When I left Berlin about 9 months ago, I could only get the required form from my landlord on the day that I gave my keys back. That was obviously shortly before I left the country, and like you, I needed an Abmeldebescheinigung to tie up loose ends, such s canceling my phone contract. So, yes, the entire system sucks and it is impossible timing-wise to do well and not get screwed.

 

I sent my abmeldung by post some weeks before I left, but the Amt did not send me an Abmeldebescheinigung that I needed (I probably just omitted the landlord form and hoped for the best - I got no response at all after putting the letter in the post box). After I returned the keys to the landlord and got the form I needed, I stayed in Berlin for a few days to tie up loose ends. I was on the website for the Amt looking for an appointment anywhere so that I could do the abmeldung in person and get the form. I managed to make two appoinments in case something was wrong the first time. I canceled the second one when I didn't need it anymore.

 

The woman at the Amt told me that I was already de-registered (Ah! my postal approach was successful), and she told me that they don't send Abmeldebescheinigung when you do it by post. The entire system is screwed :). Leaving Germany was very frustrating, and that's a reason for me to not live there again unless I intend to die there :).

 

So, you can try the same thing if you wish, and maybe even add a note that you need the Abmeldebescheinigung (I added such a note and it didn't help, but see how you get on).

 

Regarding organizations that you need to cut ties with such as GEZ, I made a list of them and called them up about it. To my surprise, GEZ were the easiest to deal with. I told them when I was leaving the country and she deregistered me over the phone AND reimbursed me a few EUR that I'd already paid for the year.

 

Feuersozietät was the worst. I think I had something minor with them like home contents insurance for something trivial like 25 EUR per year, but they wouldn't let me cancel without the Abmeldebescheinigung etc.

 

O2 was also terrible. I had both Festnetz and Handy contracts with them (separately). Luckily my Handy contract expired just a few months after I left, so I officially canceled it for then and let it expire. I think it would have somehow cost more if I had tried to cancel it two months earlier, but I don't recall the details. For my Festnetz I did 'cancel early', which I could only do after I had the Abmeldebescheinigung (VERY glad I persisted and insisted on getting that!), which I only got two days before leaving, and so I had to pay for 3 months after that when I had already guaranteed that I wasn't in the country. Leaving Germany is fucked up and so is O2. They wrote to me at the end of that period that I need to return the wifi box or pay a penalty. I knew that would happen, so I had left it with a friend in Berlin before I departed and they sent it back locally for me. So preparation can help.

 

I was with TK for health insurance, and I think they needed some assurance that I had new health insurance in Ireland in order to let me leave them and not have to keep paying them out of my own pocket. I already had a job lined up which includes a health insurance benefit, so my new employer wrote something to that effect for me (the health care provider directly refused), and they were happy enough with that. I think I had to send them a copy of the Abmeldebescheinigung as well once I had it. I remember talking to them on the phone and they told me the steps I had to take to not pay them anymore.

 

So, my advise is - make a list of everything you have a connection to and call each of them. Then make a plan and be persistent, and get the Abmeldebescheinigung in person. Don't trust them to send it to you.

 

Godspeed,

 

Steve.

 

 

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Hey Steve, 

 

yes these are all of the problems I foresee. Urgh! Just when I've decided I've had enough of this crazy system, they won't even let me leave... 

 

Ok, so instead of sending my form in by mail and waiting to receive the certificate, do you recommend going to the Bürgeramt and handing it in, and insist that I need it ASAP to cancel other contracts? And yes, there's the other problem of actually getting an appointment at the damn Amt in time. 

 

I am also with TK, but don't have another job I am going to or health insurance sorted out right away (in Portugal where I am going to, the system is a bit different). Well, ok I will call everyone and cross my fingers I don't get grumpy unhelpful people on the other end of the phone. Hahaha! 

 

I appreciate your advice and am envious you are out of this crazy system already. Another question though: do you claim your Rentenversicherung? Were you in the position to?

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