Important change in laws regarding registration and deregistration

174 posts in this topic

That´s a very useful post/thread, sosarx!  How will this pan out with absolute newcomers to Germany? Many arrive and doss at a friend´s place for a while whilst they´re getting their visa, jobs, health insurance etc sorted out...many use a c/o address. We shall see, I suppose...

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The form mention a "Wohnungsgeber", which I'd understand not to be necessarily a landlord; it could be family or friends that the registrant is staying at.

 

I wonder what the deal is when the registrant has bought the property. Is she the "home giver" then or is it the person/entity she bought it from?

 

In any case, I personally find it a bit creepy that the authorities are demanding this information. I can't put my finger on what bothers me about it. It just feels kind of intrusive.

 

EDIT: Thanks for the heads-up sosarx

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I presume it is just to make it harder for people to randomly pick an address and register there.  I doubt there are many problems, but in theory Id rather not have the police kick my door in because some crook has registered at my address.

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...and maybe a Nachzahlung in advance for next year´s tax return, Perfect Poise!:lol: I have seen the future!!!

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Fuck's sake. They'll be wanting a Schufa report and a copy of last year's tax return next...

Nope, the next will be demanding landlord to show up personally and show proof of ownership to the authorities. And then 90% of landlords refuse to register you, so 90% of people will live registered under their parents address.

 

I describe you Poland before January 2014 when they switched to German system. Now Germany wants to re-introduce former Polish system from Communism times.

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This sounds as though it all came about because some squeaky little consultant from an outsourced megaconsulting corp and wearing a nasty little suit walked into various amts. They started mouthing about Big Data, everyone was impressed then suddenly a new policy was born under the premise of data cleansing.

 

I reckon this is conveniently also a cash cow and they will now magically become knallhart on issuing fines for anything in connection with not anmelding to utmost satisfaction.

 

Bureaucracy is so twisted. One minute theres no paper lohnsteuerkarte any more, the next minute theres elena, then its cancelled, then some other money wasting exercise comes along before its scrapped. The next minute the us safe harbor agreement gets a beating by germany, the next minute were back to more paper-based bureaucracy and data protection relaxed to allow wohnungsgebers (not necessarily landlords?) to access melde data. 

 

I know, its probably a 2-line section on the anmeldeform were talking about. Maybe we should all go 100% paper again. I'd happily get signed off free from work duties for weeks on end while we all dilligently traipse from place to place getting a stempel here, a bescheingung there, a countersignature there, spoil the forms and start all over again. Grrr. Sorry, im ranting. Well, I do feel better for the rant even though we just have to suck it up all the same.

 

 

 

 

 

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Big Data? The German Ämter are still struggling to get their heads around email. There is nothing at all modern or high tech about this paranoid, Cold War-esque legislation.

 

What I want to know is, what does one do if they live in a tent, such as a growing population in my area do? Do they get a waiver or special dispensation from such antiquated violations of privacy?

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This confirmation can be issued in written to you as well as per e-mail to the authorities. In that case the landlord will be given a code number which he has to pass to you and which you can use at the authorities when you show up for the registration process.

 

Thanks for the information, but what do you mean by code number? I couldn't find any reference to code numbers when reading the information on the Web. 

 

What I have found is an informative article by immowelt.de, which I have roughly translated into English for the benefit of TT users:

 

From 1 November 2015 tenants who move, have to obtain from their landlord a so-called Wohnungsbestätigung (confirmation of residence). The reason is a new and nationwide uniform registration law.

 

In Germany there is a general duty to register one’s place of abode. Whoever moves, is obliged to inform the registry office of his new place of residence. So far, this was governed by the registry laws of the federal states - from 1 November 2015, there will be new nationwide, uniform rules. Renters who move must then additionally obtain a so-called Wohnungsbestätigung (confirmation of residence) from their new landlord.

 

The Registration Act requires registration within two weeks

 

From November tenants who move have a two week time period to register with the relevant registration office, whereby the tenant must also submit the landlord’s confirmation of residence (Wohnungsgeberbestätigung).

 

 If a tenant moves abroad deregistration with the registration office is also required. In this case, the tenant must have his moving out confirmed by his former landlord.

 

Exemptions from the registration obligation

 

The law also defines some exceptions from the obligation of registering. In the following cases, no registration is necessary: 

  • Whoever is already registered with a registration office and for a period of less than six months moves to another apartment doesn’t have to register it. Registration is required only after expiry of six months.

     

  • Tourists from abroad are obliged to register after three months.

     

  • In general it isn’t necessary to register for stays in hospitals, nursing homes, reception centres for asylum seekers or domestic violence shelters. 

No exception is made, however, for someone who doesn’t move into a new apartment for rent, but to a relative who allows him to live with him rent free - in this case, the respective relative is the Wohnungsgeber. In the case of subletting, the main tenant of the apartment is the Wohnungsgeber.

 

Content of the Wohnungsgeberbestätigungung (landlord's confirmation of residence)

 

No matter who the Wohnungsgeber is - the law provides clear requirements for the contents of the Wohnungsgeberbestätigung (landlord’s confirmation of residence). Most certainly included must be:

  • Name and address of the Wohnungsgeber

     

  • information as to whether the tenant is moving in or out

     

  • move-in or move-out date

     

  • address of the apartment

     

  • names of the new residents

 In the meantime many communities now offer on their websites forms, which can easily be downloaded and printed out. A universally valid template for a Wohnungsgeberbestätigung (landlord’s confirmation of residence) can also be found in Annex 2 of the legislative text itself. This can be downloaded from the website of the Federal Council.

 

Beware of Regulatory Offences

 

By law it is a regulatory offense, if the new rules are not adhered to. If after moving a tenant doesn’t register with the registration office within two weeks, he risks a fine of up to 1,000 Euros. The landlord can also be fined, who by law is required to issue the certificate within two weeks - he can send it either to the appropriate office directly or hand it over to the tenant.

 

With this law the federal government wants to unify the registration law nationwide and at the same time prevent sham registrations - i.e. registrations in homes where someone doesn't actually live. According to the interior ministry, there had been in the past frequent false registrations, which were used as a base for criminal activities such as credit card fraud.

 

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What I want to know is, what does one do if they live in a tent, such as a growing population in my area do? Do they get a waiver or special dispensation from such antiquated violations of privacy?

Even people living in tents enjoy public services provided by the local council. Are you suggesting they should be exempt from registration completely, or merely from providing information about the person providing them with a place to pitch their home? If they want to be exempt from registration, presumably they want to avoid paying taxes. Nice. If they want to keep it a secret who's providing a pitch for their tent... why? No conceivable reason.

Seems to me nothing much has changed according to sosarx's post - from November onwards Big Brother will be informed who is renting out what property to who, and landlords / property owners will be able to see who's renting out their property (do some people think that's a BAD thing, or in anyway different to the status quo?).

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Nope, the next will be demanding landlord to show up personally and show proof of ownership to the authorities. And then 90% of landlords refuse to register you, so 90% of people will live registered under their parents address.

 

I describe you Poland before January 2014 when they switched to German system. Now Germany wants to re-introduce former Polish system from Communism times.

In Czech Republic it was about as twisted - you had to bring the owner (or a notary-certified contract) with you AND a cadastral extract showing he/she was indeed the owner of the place. Which you couldn't get without having either the owner present or a different notary-certified power of attorney.

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The possibility to give this " Wohnungsgeberbestätigung" via e-mail is part of the law. It's up to the city to provide such a possibility , and I bet it will take some time before it's going to become common practice. I'd bet it will take a decade before Berlin offers this service.

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 If they want to be exempt from registration, presumably they want to avoid paying taxes. Nice. If they want to keep it a secret who's providing a pitch for their tent... why? No conceivable reason.

Why should they pay taxes when they have no income? I'm just wondering how this bizarre new policy applies to the rapidly expanding population of ostensible asylum seekers, and how it's enforced when one doesn't live in a home made of bricks and mortar but canvas and aluminium rods...

 

It seems at odds with other current, highly-questionable government policies, that's my point.

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Until the rules were relaxed in 2002, landlords had to provide something similar.

 

http://www.welt.de/finanzen/immobilien/article139207592/Neues-Gesetz-soll-Adressenmissbrauch-verhindern.html

 

Perfect Poise congratulations on inserting asylum seekers into the topic!

 

You are allowed to live on a some campsites (yay! lets invilte Capnboboo/Doktorlove in for good measure as it is almost Friday!) and you can be anmelded by the owners.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Another change which could turn out to be unpleasant for some is that the landlord now can get information about the persons registered under his rented apartment from the authorities. Subletting without the landlords permission will get more risky.

Good.

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Perfect Poise congratulations on inserting asylum seekers into the topic!

 

Well I think it's relevant. Once again the logistics of this don't seem to make any sense, given what's happening in the country. But then, expecting the German government to properly think anything through hugely overestimates their competence. It's a mistake I keep making even after more than five years here.

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Well I think it's relevant. Once again the logistics of this don't seem to make any sense, given what's happening in the country. But then, expecting the German government to properly think anything through hugely overestimates their competence. It's a mistake I keep making even after more than five years here.

Based on some research, it appears this law was approved in 2013 (updated in 2014), and postponed from May 2015 to November 2015.  Given that this has been in the works for 2 years, I'm guessing it'd probably take another 1-2 years to amend it to fit the current situation.  So it comes down to either you (1) expected them to foresee the current situation 2+ years ago when this requirement was drafted or (2) quickly postpone this law again. 

 

A read through the thread also provided this information, you can see there are exceptions and the refugees centers are listed as an exception. 

 

 

Thanks for the information, but what do you mean by code number? I couldn't find any reference to code numbers when reading the information on the Web. 

 

What I have found is an informative article by immowelt.de, which I have roughly translated into English for the benefit of TT users:

 

Exemptions from the registration obligation

 

The law also defines some exceptions from the obligation of registering. In the following cases, no registration is necessary: 

  • Whoever is already registered with a registration office and for a period of less than six months moves to another apartment doesn’t have to register it. Registration is required only after expiry of six months.

     

  • Tourists from abroad are obliged to register after three months.

     

  • In general it isn’t necessary to register for stays in hospitals, nursing homes, reception centres for asylum seekers or domestic violence shelters. 

No exception is made, however, for someone who doesn’t move into a new apartment for rent, but to a relative who allows him to live with him rent free - in this case, the respective relative is the Wohnungsgeber. In the case of subletting, the main tenant of the apartment is the Wohnungsgeber.

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Is it still necessary to deregister when you move within Germany? I thought they'd done away with that and the new gemeinde informed your old one, but now I'm all confused again. 

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